Airline Pilot Central Forums - Lakes Bro on its belly in DEN

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- - Lakes Bro on its belly in DEN (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/41702-lakes-bro-its-belly-den.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew75 (Post 641147)

Then DEN had a ground stop.

Ground stop in DEN?!?!? Unheard of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flex81 (Post 641342)

You act like it is a very difficult and lengthy process that only the Mighty Captain can perform. The FO's at Lakes do the FFOD items. IF the Captain does these tests, the FO supervises him because he forget how to do some of them and he needs to know them for his recurrent.

It may have been the first flight of the day because MX was working on it. Or they might have turned the pump on because of the main door or gear doors. The Acceptance checklist (also done by the FO) calls to check that the gear is down before powering up the APU.

I expected that from someone, thanks for not letting me down. :rolleyes: Here, let me highlight the parts you missed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetJock16 (Post 640641)

Correct but you still need hydraulics and we don't turn them on until after the engines have been started. Unless we are doing the first flight rudder check but at SKW, 99.99% of the time, the CA’s do the FFOD Originating Check and IF we let the FO’s do it we are there observing so they get it right. It’s a very long series of systems checks and FO’s just don’t do them that often, they’re plates are already full in the morning.

99% of the time FO's at SKW only do the “FFOD” originating check during their PC's (every 12 months). If they ask I will allow them the opportunity and I'll teach where I see problems. But the FFOD's can take a while to perform and are very detailed so when time is not on your side, slowly working your way through the checks is an issue, CA or FO. I will not let an FO complete the FFOD OC without me being present.

Don’t make this about whose root is larger; it has nothing to do with being a CA and everything to do with recency and repetition. :confused: Ever heard of those terms? BTW, this is just how it's done at SKW.

Good day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrelin (Post 640880)

It's lakes, they most definitely won't scrap it. But it is a bro and our mx program for the burrito machine is a little slow at times so getting it back online might take the better part of the next year.
I can't say whether or not the checklist already calls to check this prior to starting the APU but if not, they've been adding checklist items to us all year so this would seem a highly likely addition.
Looks like I can expect JR Mans on the Beech to increase as we pick up their flying.

We just got tired of having an extra airplane to do all of the beech's EAR, LAR and CYS turns. Now you can have them back!:)

Well, it seems like everyone is interested in what occurred, but unfortunately I wasn't there. I have spoken to many people and it seems like they're not really full on all of the fact to make a determination at this time.

1) MX was working on the gear system prior to the FO coming out.

2) The FO ran the acceptance (which the CA's and FO's are trained to do) which requires multiple checks of "gear down". The flow itself adds the gear and the checklist also requests it too, along with a "consumables" check. We turn on the power select switch to verify the gear lights, hydr fluid, and fuel.

3) The APU was started, and the hydraulics were turned on to suck up the gear doors, but only momentarily. I've heard the FO never sat in his seat (did everything kneeling on the jumpseat which is fine) which takes the idea that his foot hit the gear handle and moved it up.

4) Gear retracted after he exited the airplane to verify the doors closed.

5) Something caused this...unfortunately no one will tell me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copperhed51 (Post 641130)

Nope, they foamed all the runways after it happened, just in case.

This I have no doubt of. :D

As in most cases there are many versions of the same story, but this is what i heard....

The previous crew wrote up the left transit 'B' light saying it was burnt out. Performed the postflight and shut down the AC ( it wasnt to fly for a few hours).

Maint. proceded to change bulb, but apparently that didnt fix the "problem."

They proceded to change the entire control box (the part with the handle, lights, and gear down lock release), when the new unit was installed the gear handle was in the up position. No gear swing was done and they failed to see the six 'disagrement' lights (gear in the down position, handle in up position). AC powered down and signed off.

In comes the next poor FO to start the APU getting ready for the next flight, somehow hydraulics were left on from the maint, or they were turned on to close the door (not exactly sure why hyd. were turned on), and up comes the gear and down gose the airplane.

That is what I know, anybody got anything to add?

There were a few fire department personel at the plane learning how to operate the main airstair door. I had just arrived and was walking in from the ramp when I saw them fooling around with it. Since there were a few aircraft on the ramp with the APU's running, I can't say for sure if this particular plane had its APU running already but I would imagine it did. It was departing within the hour and the fuelers need electrical power to pump the gas so I'm sure Mx fired it up if they hadn't already while they were working on it. During the course of playing with the door, the FD ran the hyrolic accumulator out of juice and needed a bump off the hyro pump to charge the door. The FO hopped in and turned on the pump and BAM!

I was about 50 feet away when it happened but there was another plane blocking my view. I heard it alright. by the time I got there the FO was out of the plane and everyone was looking confused. If the plane was indeed powered up with the APU running the poor FO suffers from incredibly bad luck.

In other news, there's an opening for a mechanic and a first officer at GLA...

But seriously, what ship number was that? My butt had warmed the right seat in all of their bros at one point.

I hear they canned the FO right on the spot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetJock16 (Post 641643)

I expected that from someone, thanks for not letting me down. :rolleyes: Here, let me highlight the parts you missed.

99% of the time FO's at SKW only do the “FFOD” originating check during their PC's (every 12 months). If they ask I will allow them the opportunity and I'll teach where I see problems. But the FFOD's can take a while to perform and are very detailed so when time is not on your side, slowly working your way through the checks is an issue, CA or FO. I will not let an FO complete the FFOD OC without me being present.

Don’t make this about whose root is larger; it has nothing to do with being a CA and everything to do with recency and repetition. :confused: Ever heard of those terms? BTW, this is just how it's done at SKW.

Good day.

I was not making it about whose "root is larger", you were... when you said "IF we let them" like you are the high and mighty captain who knows all.
You have more recency and repetition on landing the plane, so do you not let your FO's land either? At Lakes the FO's do (or at least "did") those checks. It isn't difficult for anyone of average intelligence. I think it is fine that the Captains do it at SKW. Just don't act like you are king S#it on Turd mountain because you are the captain.