Republic
 

I have a buddy who flies for Repub (Shuttle) and says they'll hiring in the next few months as the 190s all start coming online and people are moved up the food chain.
Is this false hope? I would think the 100+ furloughs along with displaced Midwest guys would get first pickings but according to my buddy they're gonna need more. Any thoughts?

I imagine RAH furloughs will come back first followed by Midwest furloughs followed by F9 furloughs.

I'm currently in the 190 class going to MKE. To be honest, with all the integration details yet to be worked out, me personally.., I just don't see how that could be true in the short term. But I don't have the crystal ball for how many aircraft we are going to be ordering and what deals are in the works that will happen 6 months from now. Sorry, wish I could be of more help. Right now.., today.., I think most staffing will come from our 104 furloughees, the integrated pilots (Midwest) to start., and who knows about Frontier. I'm sure the way things have been going, that this will all change in the near future so keep an eye out.

Feelings on a regional flying E-190s aside I'd be cautious about joining Republic's ranks. They're walking into a snake pit directly competing in the airline markets. Just thinking they'll have a competitive advantage using regional pilots and aircraft on mainline routes may not be enough. After all, majors like United can leverage strength in other markets like international to bring down prices in DEN and MKE. And lets not forget Southwest who has been beating down Frontier and Midwest for years.

Republic might have a strong cash position now but so did Independence and XJT before their venture into operating their own brands.

Well Said...

Branded flying prove to be a very tough venture thanks to the Buffulo crash. I think customers are going to seek out the "name" airlines, aka the majors.

Exactly.

Another thing to consider is that with RAH owning F9, RAH is now competing with Delta, United and the other 'big dogs'. I believe this may allow the mainline carriers to pull their contracts with RAH which would result in a lot more pilots lost than gained with acquiring F9. The RAH list is not a list I'd like to be on right now with so much uncertainty. Just a thought given all the majors looking to cut domestic flying at the regional level.

I know very little about Republic Airways so I preemptively apologize my ignorance on the subject…

The way I understand it Republic used to consist of 3 separate entities – Chautauqua, Shuttle and Republic… Now Midwest Express and Frontier will be added to the mix. Correct?

I noticed that APC lists one pay scale for all three airlines… So if a pilot at lets say Shuttle division wants to fly for Chautauqua – does he/she simply bid a different domicile and then become part of the other airline?

I talked to a Chautauqua jumpseater just a couple of days ago and he said that eventually all Frontier and Midwest pilots would become part of Republic’s “master seniority list”…

I didn’t think much of it until I went home and looked up the pay scales posted on APC…

I noticed that a 10 year Republic captain makes $90/hour whereas a 10 year Frontier captain makes $146/hour – or $56 dollar an hour more than the Republic pilot. How the heck will they be able to put those pilots on the same seniority list if the pay disparity is so huge? Please, I mean no disrespect to either group as I’m a not part of any of the airlines involved… Personally I was very surprised Frontier went to RAH rather than SWA but that’s a different story and besides, that’s all history now…

I am very curious though how this seniority list “merger” would ever work in practical terms? With the huge pay disparity I’d imagine all Republic pilots will try to move to the Frontier side… Right? Are they going to be prevented from doing so somehow (fences, etc.)? If so, for how long?

Where do the Midwest pilots come into the picture? Can they bid for jobs at Republic now? Were they ‘incorporated’ based on their dates of hire or did they use other criteria?

I’ve had the privilege of having flown on both Midwest and Frontier flights in the past and found their service outstanding… Republic will have some huge shoes to fill in as the customers will expect the same high quality of service… I hope it’ll all work out for the three (or is it five maybe?) parties involved…

Frontier Pay Scale

Republic Pay Scale

There are conflicting requirements here....

The RAH scope requires everyone on one list.

F9 pilots have a contract, which will be binding on the new owners (unless modified in BK).

There is a new federal law requiring "Fair and Equitable" integration of seniority lists.


The only obvious way to satisfy all three legal and contractual requirements is to merge

- F9 into RAH (Satisfies RAH Scope)
- Fence F9 so all F9 FO's can upgrade into airbii (satisfies the integration law)
- Keep F9 payscales for Aibii (satisfies F9 pilot contract).

If you do it any other way, you violate a law or contract, make a lot of folks angry, and spend years in arbitration/lawsuits.

There is one other really ugly scenario, but it depends on F9 scope with regards to code-shares...if there are no restrictions on code-share, the good reverend could simply fire the F9 pilots, shift the arbii to RAH and fly them as a code-share in F9 paint...virtual airline. Or he could sell the airbii and use 190s.

If you any of you RAH types think YOU should upgrade ahead of a 7-year F9 FO, you need to be slapped silly. Ya'll should just sit down shut up and hope like heck that F9 payscales make into your contract, and not vice-versa.

Surely, Surely the glaring differences between XJT, ACA, and RAH are extremely noticable even to the most uninformed pilots among us. As it has been said many times before, and I'm sure it will be disregarded even as I say it, because people long for history to repeat itself and for another "branded regional" particularly RAH to fail. Unfortunately for those naysayers among us, history is not being repeated simply because no "regional airline" has done what RAH is attempting to do. They have the brand, they have the name recognition, they have the planes, pilots, ground staff, marketing, and customer base. They have fare structure, route structure, and fuel hedges. They know their landing fees, airport fees, security fees. There are no suprises coming to Republic. What Bedford isnt familiar with, Menke is. What Heller doesnt know, someone in Denver does. What RAH is doing is unprecedented regardless of what you say. Show me a time where a regional airline has ever attempted such an undertaking.
As to United and Delta...most assume that UA is angry and DL is livid. If you were United, what would you rather do...Leave RAH to fend of your biggest threat in DEN (Southwest) or cancel Shuttles contract and automatically have RAH with 36 170's at their immediate disposal to paint in F9 colors and parade out of DEN? Almost effectively doubling Frontiers presence instantaneously? And lets not kidd ourselves, United isnt in a position to leverage a baked potato, not to mention enter a fare war to out price F9 AND Southwest.
Delta on the other hand, is not the suprised spouse either, as it were. I'm sure we would have heard from DL by now if they were all that bothered by RAH actions. After all they tried to do away with Freedom for delayed flights. I'm sure this is a much much more aggregious offense. And yet...silence. Delta's in bed with RAH, no doubt about it.
And just one more thing, Republic has no intentions of branding itself Republic. So all the passengers who are supposedly shying from the tiny carriers will have the opportunity to continue flying "mainline household names" like Midwest and Frontier.

How did you come to that conclusion? I’m confused? :eek:


I would say if you let all F9 FOs to upgrade first won't that violate the law you just mentioned? (I'm not for or against either, I'm just asking y'alls opinion).

How do you expect any Republic pilot to find that solution "Fair and Equitable"? I guess since they're 'regional' pilots they should just sit down and shut up? Is that your reasoning? I don't know what the solution should or will be but I'm not sure any judge would agree with your reasoning here... :rolleyes:


Totally off the subject - why do you and people in general say Airbii when speaking of Airbus in plural? Is that the correct way of saying it? ( I ask because I don't know)

After all, we have 1 bus and 2 busses so why is it 1 Airbus and 2 Airbii??? :confused: I always wondered about that?

I think Delta is remaining silent until it is all said and done. Hard to say what they will do.

So.....do many RAH pilots beleive that a years of service credit should be applied in the RAH-F9-Midwes-Lynx integratioin?

If that logic is true, then a pilot at F9 should count all years of service at prior flying jobs...right? Should a RAH pilot also count years of service as a flight instructor prior to being employed at RAH as a FO?

Should the integration be done by total flying hours each pilot has?

Should the integration be done by age?

Good luck with that!

:eek:

Uhmmm, no, the passengers will not continue flying on "mainline household names". They will be flying on a far inferior product serviced by individuals making far inferior wages in an airplane that simply has the painted name of a once great airline sprawled along its fuselage. That creates a huge difference in the product. In my eyes, Midwest is dead, because those that made it such a great airline are no longer working there......

But hey, good luck with your dream. Just remember, the harder they come, the harder they fall.

RJET stock
 

closed today at 6.66

I wonder if the Reverend will consider that a "sign"

I keep hearing about all this jazz about united and delta pulling contracts from RAH cause of competition. Its not going to happen.

a. Its a contract (can be broken various ways but i doubt there is a clause that covers if one of the parties involved buys an airline to compete with the other.)
b. BB is not that stupid, he would never bite the hand that feeds him....not yet at least. yeah you may not like him, but i think he knows how to run an airline.
c. Have any of you ever thought that there might be a little cahooting going on here. You think its possible that Delta and or United gave RAH their blessing in purchasing Midwest and Frontier to compete with good ole Southwest.

Because unless you've been in a box for 20 years. you might notice that WN has been handing the legacies arses to them. Maybe just maybe they, (Delta, United) would consider it advantageous for some of their partners to compete with southwest to run them out, or loose some market share of markets here and there. WN has been strong for a long while. But their fuel hedges are coming to an end. DEN isnt working like they planned and all in all loads are down system wide. I believe RAHs mainline codeshares would appreciate a little competetion if they could be on the side of the one who throws a blow at their main competition. Then again WN could almost buy Rjet for what they were willing to bid for F9. Lets wait and see.

I just have to say to all of you guys: enjoy your career at RAH!

Sigh..,, I just don't have time for the negativity hen house anymore. Best of luck ya'll. See ya in the air.

Hey, you guys brought it on yourselves. :D

You can probably own equity (ie stock) in a competing airline without any trouble. But actually being involved in operating said airline, and integrating it with a codeshare regional probably violates any regional feed contract.

Probably true. But he may be taking a chance that his contract is vague enough that he can win in court. Or he may be assuming that UAL will liquidate soon and there's nothing to lose.

Highly unlikely...to the point of being ludicrous. UAL managers cannot see past the end of their own noses, much less hatch some devious scheme to crush SWA. Not to mention there are probably all kinds of anti-trust issues with multiple airlines conniving to run a competitor out of certain markets.

Might UAL look the other way the situation works in their favor? Sure.

Rick if you can point me in a better direction I'll thank you for it but as far as I can tell "fair and equitable" isn't anything defined about how list must be merged but instead a promise that due process will be afforded to everyone. One union can submit to another their proposal and the other can deny or accept then counter and eventually go to arbitration. I've understood it to afford each group the same liberties and process that must be followed allowing each to object or agree at key points. Kind of like how each criminal is guaranteed a certain due process. He might be on video committing murder but he's still entitled to the full legal system.

I guess the assumption is that RAH employees cannot provide the customer with good customer service simply because they arent Midwest employees. Yeah, for that matter I suppose no regional airline employee can provide decent customer service. And all the Midwest station employees...well they dont count either I spose...Not sure exactly how the product changes if it doesnt exist. You know like the "product" that was the thriving MKE route structure prior to RAH's takeover. OH WAIT a second, it wasnt much of a product after all. Thats not the point. The point is RAH came to MKE and dismantled a once great airline. They single handidly tore apart Midwest and left the carcass to rot in the heat. And how did they do that? Well when Republic had the chance to sell Midwest to Airtran they fought the hostile takeover. And then Republic sold Midwest to Northwest and TPG in hopes of straightening out the finances. And then Republic went ahead shut down Skyway as an air carrier and hired skywest on. And then Republic outsourced most of the outstations to American Eagle. And then Republic sold all of the MD 80s. And then Republic went and sold the 717s. If I missed anything else Republic did, please feel free to add.

IMHO...a truly great post. I'm sure you'll get no rebuttal as most of the trolls have their head in the sand. The jealousy that rings out in these threads is glaring. **Shrugs shoulders**

They sold themselves to Northwest Orient in 1986 :D

Wouldn't work for Republic if you don't have too. This pilot group is becoming the the "virtual scabs" for our profession. Add to that the pilot group that turned down Southwest jobs and pay guarantees.

You will get no respect.




ps. To answer the next Frontier pilot posting. I hope you are kept separate from Republic... don't count on it.

The fact that you can use the "s" word so easily says a lot about yourself. How pathetic.

From who? Everyone respects Frontier. Nice place, happy employees, even happier customers. Hopefully that tradition will continue. Why would you call them scabs? Simply because a holdings company purchased them? What has changed with them since the purchase? You think it was the pilot group that made the decision about who purchased them?

I get it. Republic can do no wrong.

I think you need to stop drinking that kool-aid BB is giving you in the morning.

Its funny how people use the "s" word so casually, yet they're only showing their ignorance on the subject. Walk the picket lines first, than we can debate about it.:rolleyes:

I find it fascinating that 35 of the same people repeatedly post over and over and over here, like someone out there in the jumpseat world is going to turn around and say "hey, aren't you that dashing dude with the slick username on APC that posts such blithe hatred for XYZ airlines?" Its almost like this is the Computer Club that sits around after school at mom's house drinking Kool-Aid discussing how they are going to kill the prom king and queen and rule the school.

I really am amazed at what I read here from time to time. I have never heard such vitriol coming from people here that chose the wrong door in "Let's Make a Deal" (Google it if you are under 30). Life is your oyster guys. The pearl you create is up to you. If you don't like the decision you made when you signed on at Comair, Skywest, Republic, Frontier, Southwest, Delta, NW, Continental, etc...get the hell out of the industry. You create the world you live in. No amount of whining or complaining is going to do anything but bring your life more misery and keep you locked in the WC of your dreams. And by the way, no opinion you read here, is going to affect the way a captain at another airline is going to view you when you come down the jet bridge. You behave like a mature person who enjoys life and doors will open anywhere.

This has been proven over and over again in life. Your core beliefs, like "RAH is evil", "Southwest is a military base", "American Airlines is a mortuary", etc...only keeps you locked into your diseased view of the world. The day you change these core beliefs (fantasies actually) is the day you start enjoying your flying life. When it all comes down to it; the day you hang up your wings, none of this bickering will have solved a thing...ever.

When is it going to dawn on you that "Airlinepilotforums.com Regional Forum Causes Bedford to Re-Evaluate Plan to Rule the World" the newspaper headline, will never be printed? Probably the day you turn 35. Time will tell.

Great Post, if only some would follow this sage advice...The thing that drives me nuts its over the last year I have yet to find any 1 airline that some under 30 "APC-er" doesnt think is ruining, psuedo-scabbing (that one really makes me shake my head), bringing down, stealing, or just plain evil empire...etc etc etc....:eek:

One day I believe that most ( not all ) but most finally figure out in life that You get out of it exactly what you put into it..

Really, jealousy? How's the paycheck?

Whenever you're flying your big ol' jet, just look down and to the right when you're in BOS sometime. See that little ol' 402? Yeah, think about the fact that his paycheck is significantly bigger than yours, and you're carrying 3-1/2 times his weight in fuel.

It's alright though, you're flying a REAL AIRLINER. WOOOO!

Dude, I've walked the picket line. Do you remember seeing picket lines in MKE? Republic pilot are being used to undermine the Midwest pilot union during contract negotiations! This is not another "connect" contract. The Midwest pilots can't legally strike.

I understand you have to fly your trips, but show me one thing your membership is doing to support the Midwest pilots?

Maybe we can't call you scabs, but you are being used as "virtual scabs" and bragging about it. Show me something right, moral, supportive, positive, professional about how your pilot group in handling the Midwest flying...

... letters from your MEC to the Midwest membership
... pictures of your members picketing with the Midwest guys
... a letter from your MEC to BB supporting Midwest pilots

Who's bragging? Out of our 2000 I have only come across one

Come on guys listen to yourselves....

First, I agree that the "s" word is being used a little too freely, but let’s get some facts straight.

A scab is a pilot who intentionally crosses the picket line (or is hired) during a strike, ignoring all unity towards their fellow pilots. Their reasoning can be many things, fear of job loss, paycheck, career ect., or just their desperation to get a job by dismissing all integrity. By doing this, these pilots are usually agreeing to work for cheaper rates/worse work rules/ect just to either obtain or keep a job.

Republic is coming in and replacing these carriers with cheaper rates, lower paid pilots, and more efficient equipment. What they are doing has many characteristics of the "s" word, but their pilots are not the scabs, it’s the management. Now, pilots who get hired on after this takes place you could possibly consider in this category, but the current pilots are simply continuing to work for a paycheck. I've been extremely bitter about this situation for a long time, and I agree it is nothing but WRONG. Recently however I've been asking myself, what do I want republic pilots to do, quit?

Now, if they bend over and take it in the A** during negotiations, don't obtain better pay rates, and allow their BSJS (Big SJS) to be enough to continue working for this miserable pay, then they may be begin to approach this category. I really hope they step up and get the pay they deserve. But again lets be clear, Republic may be becoming a scab company, but the pilots didn't "cross the line" in my eyes, the management did by displaying no regard for this profession. If Republic management is so quick to throw other pilots under the bus, don't be so sure they won't throw their own pilots under the bus at the drop of a hat.

I couldn't agree more. If Republic pilots make no effort to show unity towards their fellow pilots being effected, then they are throwing out all dignity and respect in my opinion. Thats like killing your friend, getting away with it, and then showing up at the funeral just to spit on their grave.

Show your support Republic. Full integration for all 400 Midwest pilots. Not just the pilots that were on the property when Republic bought Midwest. That's BS.

Besides wanting to integrate them to keep them flying?

I don't believe anyone has ever even mentioned not integrating everyone on the list into the master list.

integrating them at less than half of their original pay is not exactly what I call "supporting" them.