The parent letter has not been released yet but DOES cover the colgan/pinnacle (9E/9L) issues. When it becomes available that is something I WILL bring out into the public so our Colgan siblings can see how this "family arrangement" is being set up. The document should be up soon in addition to some other sections that are still being worked on between the company and association.


In the crewroom it seems nobody has a positive taste in their mouth over this TA, but the fear of "what if we don't" is frustrating to hear. Vote on the contract- that's what it's for, we are not voting on a contract to keep or lose jobs. Remember the "last,best, final offer" deal in 06 and the saturday fedex package? Yea- same BS scheme of fear.l

 

Please for the sake of the industry please vote for what they have offered not by how long it may be for a new TA if voted down During my 2 and 1/2 time in mike office with Garvin on the day i came in to turn in my books and id badge he asked my what i did not like about pinnacle i told him managment as they will interprete everything to there advantage and don't care about there employees just like the bs he was saying about our flight beninns with delta. I asked him why they would say one thing and turn around and do something compleatly different he had no answer. so do read the contract from the company view other wise you may end up regretting the next 5 to 10 years

 

All Pinnacle Brothers and Sisters;

Please take your time and vote wisely. Go to the road shows. Read the TA for yourself. Ask questions. For God's sake, do not listen to rumor or what someone "thinks" is in the TA. Find out for yourselves.

Please do not cave into management's empty and veiled threats that you will be closing up shop if you do not pass this TA. Chapter 1 Page 1 out of the Management Playbook says to instill fear amongst the employees until it passes. This is just a scare tactic! Their "last, best and final offer" is anything but. If you tell a lie long enough, eventually people begin to believe it. They can do better and you deserve better. Do not be overcome by the airline version of the Stockholm Syndrome; make no mistake, that is exactly what this is. If they hold you hostage long enough, eventually you may begin to sympathize with them.

At Comair in 2005 were told that if we took pay freezes and longevity freezes that we would be "in line" with other DCI carriers and would win growth. It didn't happen. Then later in 2005-2006 we were dragged into a sham bankruptcy along with Delta and were forced to sign a concessionary agreement under the threat of the 1113 process. We were told that if we did not take concessions that Comair would fold. However, if we did take the concessionary agreement that (and I am quoting our VP of Flight Ops) "Delta would grow the hell out of us" and (a quote from our Chief Pilot at the time) "this place will grow like wild fire". Well, we agreed on a concessionary contract, again, under the threat of having a Bankruptcy Court imposed contract forced on us using the 1113 process. Well, I can tell you that the bleeding continued and we did not see any growth. In fact, we still to this day are being gutted slowly with, unfortunately, no end in sight.

You know the saying. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Well that certainly applies here.

I guess what I am trying to say is do not settle for one cent less than you are worth. Anything less than that is unacceptable. Of course your management team will hem and haw and say that you will fold or that Delta will send your flying away or that it will put you at an uncompetitive disadvantage. But the fact is that agreeing to a sub par contract will not guarantee that those things won't happen anyway.

Just ask any Comair pilot.

 

Pretty sure it's an inevitability at this point that we'll be merged one day...I'm pretty sure portions of that section were TA'ed before the ALPA vote at Colgan, b/c the language says something to the effect of if there's a merging, it will be governed by Associate bylaws if the "other" company (of course colgan isn't explicitly mentioned) is in the same Association, or Allegheny-Mohawk if the other airline isn't in the same Association....

We haven't seen the most important sections yet--PBS, Scheduling, Pay, Pass Travel, and Parent Letter....many ta'ed sections such as vacation will be overriden by the more-recent PBS document...

I understand the ire of other regionals that we might draw if we vote it in, since our payrates are rumored to be lower than current book on ASA/Skywest/etc....however, the PBS document has been talked up quite a bit, and supposedly will be the most comprehensive document governing PBS line construction and usage in the industry--I'm eager to see that scheduling section and the parent letter...

 

SKYW has a historical credit value that is usually within a couple of minutes of scheduled block in either direction. But we still get block or better.

 

The parent letter actually does set a new precedent for regionals under holding companies. The scope we have is good, even when I give it to my wife and have her play management (she's really good at it and it normally starts a fight over our arguing), and she says "damn- I can't even spin it".


Unfortunately the parent letter and scope are the top and are section 1 and separate of the rest of the 30 sections. Thankfully, the R&I sections are not out to the public and are being worked on. It's amazing what happens when the committee calls up the department (benefits) and can work on a deal separate from the negotiating group. I still think this TA is NOT something worth it's paper, especially after 4+ years. Call me the "give me" generation or whatever else, but read the deal and START by comparing it to the CONCESSIONARY deals of our peers- you will come up short. Then looking at deals of late (ASA and even MAG) and my decision was a no-brainer. If YOU feel you are lacking info, call me (9E guys can get my number from our union site) or email me. I can send you the other carriers and you can make your own educated decision. I have respect for all the guys working on this- heck I have been on the phone over 3000 mins just with "work" calls and the month isn't even over, but this TA is not a settlement- it's a concession. The company is trying to secure a cheap labor group that performs at the highest level of any RJ carrier in the world. Mgmt is playing the game perfectly, but we can't let ourselves and this industry going forward be railroaded into this due to vail "threats" and contract fatigue. Here is a copy/paste from my post on the company site that I hope nobody takes offense to, but I deliberated for a long time before posting it..


I recommend anyone who already hasn't to take a look at "flying the line v.1 and 2. Good reads- seriously, many chapters are far more entertaining than this board and may give you a different vantage point of this entire process and how it can take a little hardball to have decades worth of great times. You came here most likely to fly and make a living right? You read all the flying books that dealt with flying (ratings, regs, procedures), take a little time and read up on the airline world of labor- it's been a rough industry and looks to stay that way. Many carriers faced this same conundrum and made decisions that they themselves second guessed then, that have paid off exponentially now- only because they stood up unified for what they all felt was "Right" for not only their personal future, but the entire industry's. Remind yourself why you were part of the 99% who voted to strike? Are we really all talk and no bite?- I am sure that question will get answered when we start seeing barking over this TA when everyone goes through it from every range of the seniority list. If the TA is good enough, the vote will show it, if it's not and we vote it in we will be chuckled at just as we chuckle over the flight attendants complaining and all saying they voted "no", but it passed. We are only as good as our actions as a whole. Make YOUR decision and we will have a unified position at the end of the voting period.


The "good" contracts have NEVER fallen in the laps of pilots- there has always been a good deal of tension (applied from both sides) to get a great deal. In each new deal precedents were set that at the next negotiating cycle became the "industry average". We are a couple years away from some of the current "leaders" to go into negotiations- do you think those guys are willing to take anything less than what they currently have in a deal? We are going to be voting on a 3rd generation contract- when we are at a timeline for a 4th generation deal. Your vote, my vote, and the other 1248 votes will all come together and show the MEC, mgmt, and the industry overall how we are going forward in this industry.

We all must think not about what it means NOW, but what it means in 5 years, 10 years, or even decades depending on how old (or willing) you are to stay in this industry. Look back on the last 5 years (or however long you have been here) and think of how a few months would have changed things with these new rates. Thinking a plasma on the wall in front of you, a nice ride outside- or maybe in a garage? Then think going forward where you see yourself in 5/10/25 years. A few months can change things drastically in a good or bad direction forward, typically not looking back though in the monetary terms, but ACTIONS from the past you may have changed- and what would your situation be today. Are we "settling" on a deal, or do WE feel this contract compensates, covers, and treats you as you deserve compared to peers doing the same job?

I don't care how you vote, everyone's opinions and viewpoints make a message board an entertaining and enlightening place to visit. Management would love for us to "call in fatigued" and just sign a deal- remember the "last, best, final offer" (from a couple years ago), but WE make the decision on continuing this process, or settle with 4.5 years of negotiations to yield a document that sets the bounds of every aspect of our lives. Work impacts every aspect of life- You may be "off", but the money you spend when you are "off" is derived from "work". QOL is always talked about- are we going to settle for the same junk, new tricks? Ask the guys on RSV at ASA- things just got "different" for folks in the bucket system. Scheduling (with <retreacted for APC> help) will always find a way to cover flying- regardless of what you make think is fair and just unless the words in the contract say they can't in black and white. This document covers every pilot, in each area of the seniority list and payscale- it's impossible to make everyone happy, but is everyone getting improvements at least on par with your peers at other carriers?


This TA is not just awaited on by the 1250 of us, but all our "peers" to see how things are going to be compared to when negotiations open up for the majority of them in 2011. We look at the IMPROVEMENTS in ASA pay from 07 after all the "good" carriers fell into concessionary deals- ASA brought the bar back up, is it a blip of positive when carriers open up talks in 2011 and mgmt tells each and every one of them "Pinnacle signed this in 09 and it's pilot's agreed that this is the going rate for services"?

We say MESA is the bottom- remember they voted theirs down, got a tad bigger payrate and a 2-yr deal and it's in place- and every pilot still b*tches about the deal. Mesa does the same work, but we knock em- XJT,AWAC,ASA do the same work and we envy their contracts while most of them say they are happy? Am I the only one who sees the coincidence?

The biggest message we get to send is the entire pilot vote on this contract- it's not 3 guys on a committee thinking it's good enough, it's not 8 reps who think it's barely enough to show the pilots, it's 1250 pilots stating a voice and final answer on how they will live for the next 5+ years of their lives.

Ahh.... there's the step down from the soapbox.

Goodnight.

 

please vote only with thé idea is this contract good for thé industry and thé pilot group

 

"since our payrates are rumored to be lower than current book"???? There's no question the payrates are lower!!!!!

 

bad rumor

payrates are approximately current book plus COLA for the last 5 years. Some longevity rates have an added 3-4 buck increase, senior longevity pay (top 6% of the sen list) is below current book plus COLA for the last 5 years.

 

I didn't type out his entire quote since it was right above my reply, and I figured everyone would see the whole thing...but apparently you didn't notice he said "current book at ASA, SkyWest, etc."! SO, yes it is less, quite a bit less!!