Thats another thing I noticed about the meeting. There is a big push to get this contract effective by Oct. 1st. We are starting an FA new hire class and rumors are spreading about guys getting pilot interviews. Something is up. I just wonder if we are actually going to be able to see the final ta before we vote.

Be careful guys. This is always the play from management and the union stooges on their side. They'll play up that something "big" is coming in hopes that 50% +1 vote yes.

Take that emotion out and simply vote on the language of the TA. If that, AND THAT ALONE, is agreeable to you, vote yes. If not, vote no.

There is only ONE thing that is certain to happen to the PNCL pilots at this point and that is the ability to vote for or against this TA. Ignore the "Phantom" carrot.

I personally think it's unfathomable that you could have to vote without seeing the entire TA. I'm not even sure how anyone could come to a resonable conclusion without all the facts.

I can let you know that the FA class is probably due to the fact that 10 FA's in DTW walked off the job last month. I have yet to actually talk to someone who has got an interview with us on the pilot side, who knows.

I don't really care about seeing the 'final TA'. I only had to read about 10 pages to decide I was voting no.

1. Below average pay
2. Way below average retirement
3. Below average days off
4. Below average duration with no COLA after the amendable date - (fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on ME!) Guess we will don't learn from our mistakes.

Wilson polling was worthless if you ask me. The questions they asked were horrible. IE (what percentage of pay increase do you want? How about I give you a number amount not a percentage.) I'm glad to see retirement (according to wilson polling) is last on everyones list. Guess I'm not part of the 'fly til you die' generation.

OCT 1 might have something to do with those 30 900's at Mirabel with PQ tails? :p

The only reason retirement showed up at the low end is because it was paired up against health insurance instead of being separate. It's hard to have your COST double cause it costs you money out of your pocket, it's easy to rationalize a lower match because its all "free money", just less of it.

The United RFP is the same RFP that was bid on in 06- remember the "last, best, final offer".. Yup, same crap.

A poll on the union website currently has 227 no votes and 61 yes votes. Thats about 20 % of our pilot group. What does the other 80% think and is this 20% going to follow through?

Here's mine. Just say NO.


http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/s...P-ALPA0001.jpg

Good job Higney

Rest of 9E would you sign a blank contract at an auto dealer? Would you trust an auto salesman if he said just sign the contract (blank) and drive away

Remember Phil is not your friend

Too bad the voting period is open for so long, looks like the voting could be complete within a few days based on the number who have voted already.

I like the avatar preston.

Don't get too confident, remember that the message board only representes 20% of the pilot group.

thanks, i can't take credit, i ripped it off thomas decker, but it sums up my thoughts towards the TA :D

Yea, I was thinking someone else was using it....

Another NO vote here.

what would be funny... taking the NO vote and faxing it to Uncle Phil. :D

Voting opened up yesterday obviously, and I already voted NO!! Gonna go to the roadshow and see how I can shake the bushes;)

The "no" voters always post online. I still predict 60/40 yes.

You mean the shameful, "yes" voters hide in the shadows.

Well done Higney!!

With all this talk of "minimum standards" for DCI contracts, why not vote no and wait for the minimum standards push?

After all, that would be at least ASA's rates, right?

So.... who's going to be the first to post the executive summary?

To me, I hope they beat out the contract here at ASA because it is lacking in some areas ( as all do ) but you don't want to be in line with us 3 years ago, right ?

Well the first roadshow in DTW is in 3 and a half hours. I can't wait to see how the negotiating committee reacts to a buncha ****ed off pilots!! This is probably gonna turn into a town hall meeting.

If anyone believes in the "follow the money" theory, the big money is betting on a TA. The stock is up a couple of hundred percent and I believe Wall St. is betting on you ratifying the TA. I hope that these road shows prove that five years was worth the wait for you.

Given that it took five years of negotiations, you could very well be signing a contract that you live under for the next nine years. If COL goes up 3-5% a year, that means that your purchasing power will be up to 45% less in nine years. If the contract doesn't keep up for that, you will be making less in nine years effectively than you are now. Then there are the other biggies, scope, retirement, work rules. Think how these will be nine years from now when you vote.

Honestly, This contract is not going to pass, there is no way. I know there are people that say they will vote no and then vote yes but just from being on the line for 2 weeks since the TA I will be absolutely shocked if the TA PAsses.

i agree with you, based on crew room and line flying, 95% of the people I have talked to are pi$$ed and voted NO as soon as they could. Those who are going to vote or voted yes are smart enough to not fess up because they know they will get verbally assaulted if someone hears it.

I think you will be disappointed. The TA will pass.

I agree. its hard to find anyone who voted yes on our contract but it still passed by a huge margin. I hope the Pinnacle group has the gumption to say no if the TA sucks, and from what I am hearing it does, but I am not overly confident that they will. Hell, they will probably get some of our planes once they establish that they will be the cheapest DCI carrier. Let the race begin.

At least I can proudly say I voted "NO" and if the rest of the pilot group want to take us down that 10 year road again then so be it.

The only positive thing about it passing is that it would give me more drive to leave this dump. That's kinda hard right now...

Just voted no.

I don't care if you don't believe me.

It is pretty sad when our profession has people willing to make 30-40 grand as 2-4 yr fo and not put it on the line for something better. I would hope colgan would join you guys in a strike and i think that they should. What does half of their pilot group have to lose? 24 dollars an hour as an fo? 25 thou a yr? practically zero retirement, horrible work rules.... if you cant get people in the gutter to join you when your both fighting the same company then we are all screwed. People are too scared of losing their 25 thousand a year job. Who cares if you get fired!!! You literally can make more working at home depot... I am not sensationalizing either. Management has already won by allowing this mindset to flourish. This is what happens when you hire people desperate to fly airplanes who have no qualifications.

Sad. I hope Pinnacles pilots do the right thing.

The FO's are qualified. The problem is some of them, their last job was High School. Without some life experience, that CBA in their hands is just a bunch of printed words.

no one needs to be singling out FO's as the reason this POS might get voted in, there are more senior CA's saying they are or will vote yes than FO's

Highlights
 

Here are some highlights from the TA:
Payrates=indus. ave. and adjusted for ind. ave. every year or 1% raises at least
Per Diem= $1.65>1.85 at DOS+5
100% cancellation pay for all cancellations regardless of reason
125% pay if you offer to sit reserve for the original flight time period after a cancellation
150% on all JR. Mans and Xtensions
1 Jr man/Xtension refusal per mo. up to 6 refusals/yr
75% deadhead pay
50% training pay (from FAA credits or PTRB times...1hr guaranteed)
Duty period lmtd to 12hrs if a flight check is involved
Max duty 15hrs
min rest of 8.5 hrs out of domicile and 11 in base (reducible to 9 in certain situations)
Days off: line holder=11; rsv=10
During July and Jan. if you've not called in sick, you get 4.5 hrs pay
Max duty of 10.5hrs after reduced rest or less than 9hrs.
no Jr. Assnmts below min days off
addition of long call rsv (possibly) and CDO reserve
Trip Value or better for pay

that about sums up the good stuff...new reserve is pitiful (too painful to type); Pass is awful; sub par 401K remains largely unchanged; signing bonus does not come near making us whole; 5 yr duration

I am not singling out FO's, I am suggesting they may have an excuse. Anyone else... They are able to make their own decisions.

keep in mind 4.5hrs of pay for not calling in sick comes from YOUR sick bank. You get cash instead of calling in sick.

Wow, that's ridiculous.....so they're trying to reward you for not using your sick time....by paying you from your sick time???

The company's view is that it is "their" sick time. You are allowed to "cash out" 4.5 hours if you were a "good employee". Since you didn't use any of your sick time you can sell a little back.