ASA Red Arrow Days
08-30-2009, 01:13 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: CRJ-700/CRJ-900 Gear Monkey
Posts: 120
ASA Red Arrow Days
Does anyone know what is up with all of the red arrow days on Sked plus? You can't move a single off day anymore....Looks like something that needs too be addressed during the new contract negotiations.
08-30-2009, 04:50 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: crj-200 FO
Posts: 479
Originally Posted by Avroman
Didn't you guys just finish contract negotiations about a year ago?
08-31-2009, 09:38 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Watching, always watching...
Posts: 102
"We are not canceling anything due to lack of crews. We are simply below the minimum level. There is also no need to staff for you to trade trips. You get what you get."
That is what MGMT answer will be.
Do I like it. No. Do I understand it, yes.
That is what MGMT answer will be.
Do I like it. No. Do I understand it, yes.
08-31-2009, 09:46 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: CRJ-200 First Officer
Posts: 262
Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
Why did we furlough if we're so short on pilots? This pilot group needs to demand answers. I think the good times are about to end.
Good luck to the 56 joining us on the curb tomorrow.
08-31-2009, 06:29 PM
#8
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 74
More from the water cooler...
I recently heard the company is being taken to court over the whole ‘red arrow day’ issue. Apparently it’s in violation of our contract, which states only a certain number (?) of days per month can be restricted (red arrow). Not the entire month, which seems to have been the norm over the last six months. If anybody has confirmation on this, please tell. And where exactly is this written in our contract, I have yet to find it, if anyone knows the reference, please share.
More water cooler talk – I’m told our DCI contract with big-D is up for renewal/negotiation sometime in 2010. The renewal supposedly stipulates that we will be the 2nd lowest cost DCI under big-D. If we should fall short on this, it could possibly jeopardize our 80% of ATL flying. Again, this is all second hand, so if anyone can elaborate, please do.
As for cost, all of our fuel saving efforts (minimizing APU, indexing, single engine taxi, etc…) is a noble effort, but I think it’s only a pinch in the bucket compared to what really eats at our bottom line, which is our high labor cost. Perhaps letting go of all the out station personnel has helped, but when it’s all said and done, apparently we have a high percentage of pilots (compared to other DCI’s) who max out on the high end of the pay scale.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, for who can blame them, many have come here and decided life was good, why move on. But unfortunately, the bean counters have based our model on a system where most folks move on in 7 to 10 years, not grow moss. But this is just my speculation, I’d be curious to see some actual numbers on the industries fuel cost vs. labor, perhaps someone out there can provide some perspective on this.
And for the record, I think it’s wrong to make the pax sweat on our idle descents from 10K, or the long taxi inns from the south runway, because were waiting for the hook up on C-concourse. The pax pay for a comfortable ride, lets ensure they get one.
OK, off my soap box, that's my 2c.
More water cooler talk – I’m told our DCI contract with big-D is up for renewal/negotiation sometime in 2010. The renewal supposedly stipulates that we will be the 2nd lowest cost DCI under big-D. If we should fall short on this, it could possibly jeopardize our 80% of ATL flying. Again, this is all second hand, so if anyone can elaborate, please do.
As for cost, all of our fuel saving efforts (minimizing APU, indexing, single engine taxi, etc…) is a noble effort, but I think it’s only a pinch in the bucket compared to what really eats at our bottom line, which is our high labor cost. Perhaps letting go of all the out station personnel has helped, but when it’s all said and done, apparently we have a high percentage of pilots (compared to other DCI’s) who max out on the high end of the pay scale.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, for who can blame them, many have come here and decided life was good, why move on. But unfortunately, the bean counters have based our model on a system where most folks move on in 7 to 10 years, not grow moss. But this is just my speculation, I’d be curious to see some actual numbers on the industries fuel cost vs. labor, perhaps someone out there can provide some perspective on this.
And for the record, I think it’s wrong to make the pax sweat on our idle descents from 10K, or the long taxi inns from the south runway, because were waiting for the hook up on C-concourse. The pax pay for a comfortable ride, lets ensure they get one.
OK, off my soap box, that's my 2c.
08-31-2009, 09:22 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: ATL
Posts: 413
Originally Posted by String682
I recently heard the company is being taken to court over the whole ‘red arrow day’ issue. Apparently it’s in violation of our contract, which states only a certain number (?) of days per month can be restricted (red arrow). Not the entire month, which seems to have been the norm over the last six months. If anybody has confirmation on this, please tell. And where exactly is this written in our contract, I have yet to find it, if anyone knows the reference, please share.
More water cooler talk – I’m told our DCI contract with big-D is up for renewal/negotiation sometime in 2010. The renewal supposedly stipulates that we will be the 2nd lowest cost DCI under big-D. If we should fall short on this, it could possibly jeopardize our 80% of ATL flying. Again, this is all second hand, so if anyone can elaborate, please do.
As for cost, all of our fuel saving efforts (minimizing APU, indexing, single engine taxi, etc…) is a noble effort, but I think it’s only a pinch in the bucket compared to what really eats at our bottom line, which is our high labor cost. Perhaps letting go of all the out station personnel has helped, but when it’s all said and done, apparently we have a high percentage of pilots (compared to other DCI’s) who max out on the high end of the pay scale.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, for who can blame them, many have come here and decided life was good, why move on. But unfortunately, the bean counters have based our model on a system where most folks move on in 7 to 10 years, not grow moss. But this is just my speculation, I’d be curious to see some actual numbers on the industries fuel cost vs. labor, perhaps someone out there can provide some perspective on this.
And for the record, I think it’s wrong to make the pax sweat on our idle descents from 10K, or the long taxi inns from the south runway, because were waiting for the hook up on C-concourse. The pax pay for a comfortable ride, lets ensure they get one.
OK, off my soap box, that's my 2c.
More water cooler talk – I’m told our DCI contract with big-D is up for renewal/negotiation sometime in 2010. The renewal supposedly stipulates that we will be the 2nd lowest cost DCI under big-D. If we should fall short on this, it could possibly jeopardize our 80% of ATL flying. Again, this is all second hand, so if anyone can elaborate, please do.
As for cost, all of our fuel saving efforts (minimizing APU, indexing, single engine taxi, etc…) is a noble effort, but I think it’s only a pinch in the bucket compared to what really eats at our bottom line, which is our high labor cost. Perhaps letting go of all the out station personnel has helped, but when it’s all said and done, apparently we have a high percentage of pilots (compared to other DCI’s) who max out on the high end of the pay scale.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, for who can blame them, many have come here and decided life was good, why move on. But unfortunately, the bean counters have based our model on a system where most folks move on in 7 to 10 years, not grow moss. But this is just my speculation, I’d be curious to see some actual numbers on the industries fuel cost vs. labor, perhaps someone out there can provide some perspective on this.
And for the record, I think it’s wrong to make the pax sweat on our idle descents from 10K, or the long taxi inns from the south runway, because were waiting for the hook up on C-concourse. The pax pay for a comfortable ride, lets ensure they get one.
OK, off my soap box, that's my 2c.
09-01-2009, 06:47 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Captain, CRJ-200, ASA
Posts: 876
Originally Posted by String682
I recently heard the company is being taken to court over the whole ‘red arrow day’ issue. Apparently it’s in violation of our contract, which states only a certain number (?) of days per month can be restricted (red arrow). Not the entire month, which seems to have been the norm over the last six months. If anybody has confirmation on this, please tell. And where exactly is this written in our contract, I have yet to find it, if anyone knows the reference, please share.
More water cooler talk – I’m told our DCI contract with big-D is up for renewal/negotiation sometime in 2010. The renewal supposedly stipulates that we will be the 2nd lowest cost DCI under big-D. If we should fall short on this, it could possibly jeopardize our 80% of ATL flying. Again, this is all second hand, so if anyone can elaborate, please do.
As for cost, all of our fuel saving efforts (minimizing APU, indexing, single engine taxi, etc…) is a noble effort, but I think it’s only a pinch in the bucket compared to what really eats at our bottom line, which is our high labor cost. Perhaps letting go of all the out station personnel has helped, but when it’s all said and done, apparently we have a high percentage of pilots (compared to other DCI’s) who max out on the high end of the pay scale.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, for who can blame them, many have come here and decided life was good, why move on. But unfortunately, the bean counters have based our model on a system where most folks move on in 7 to 10 years, not grow moss. But this is just my speculation, I’d be curious to see some actual numbers on the industries fuel cost vs. labor, perhaps someone out there can provide some perspective on this.
And for the record, I think it’s wrong to make the pax sweat on our idle descents from 10K, or the long taxi inns from the south runway, because were waiting for the hook up on C-concourse. The pax pay for a comfortable ride, lets ensure they get one.
OK, off my soap box, that's my 2c.
More water cooler talk – I’m told our DCI contract with big-D is up for renewal/negotiation sometime in 2010. The renewal supposedly stipulates that we will be the 2nd lowest cost DCI under big-D. If we should fall short on this, it could possibly jeopardize our 80% of ATL flying. Again, this is all second hand, so if anyone can elaborate, please do.
As for cost, all of our fuel saving efforts (minimizing APU, indexing, single engine taxi, etc…) is a noble effort, but I think it’s only a pinch in the bucket compared to what really eats at our bottom line, which is our high labor cost. Perhaps letting go of all the out station personnel has helped, but when it’s all said and done, apparently we have a high percentage of pilots (compared to other DCI’s) who max out on the high end of the pay scale.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, for who can blame them, many have come here and decided life was good, why move on. But unfortunately, the bean counters have based our model on a system where most folks move on in 7 to 10 years, not grow moss. But this is just my speculation, I’d be curious to see some actual numbers on the industries fuel cost vs. labor, perhaps someone out there can provide some perspective on this.
And for the record, I think it’s wrong to make the pax sweat on our idle descents from 10K, or the long taxi inns from the south runway, because were waiting for the hook up on C-concourse. The pax pay for a comfortable ride, lets ensure they get one.
OK, off my soap box, that's my 2c.
First, the "red arrow days" are NOT in the contract. The contract says they can only designate (4?) "restricted days". According to the company "red arrow days" are NOT "restricted days". they are correct. It may seem like semantics, but arbitrators live that kind of stuff. The union screwed the pooch by leaving a huge loophole here. ALPA is fighting this to save face, but they WILL lose.
Second, the DCI contract. What you were "told" is fact. I was in the union when that came to pass. (SkyWest bought us). Also management has been very vocal about it, throwing it in the pilot's faces at every opportunity. The real question is if DAL will actually drop us. I say 0% chance of that, but 90% chance of DAL and SKW renegotiating the SKW profit margin to something much lower. 10% chance of DAL buying ASA back.
Third... fuel savings/labor costs. YA THINK? Cleared for take off Captain Obvious!
Your last point, I flt the fiddy and start the APU on descent as soon as it starts to get hot. Crew and pax comfort come before saving DAL fuel. We seem to forget where our paychecks come from... the passengers.
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