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Originally Posted by Son of Chuck
(Post 681319)
How about 2500 hr's. That would be somewhere around 1000 hr's instructing plus maybe another 1.5 - 2 yr's real world experience flying boxes, pax, lab work,etc. I know not all people would would get out of instructing at 135 min's to build time, but I believe enough would to advance their careers.
What 135 op flying boxes, pax, lab work, checks etc is actively hiring pilots right now? What 121 accident has involved a pilot with less than 1500 hours? And if there is one, was his/her lack of hours directly attributed to the cause of the accident? Prove to me that a pure lack of experience (less than 1500, 2000, 3000 however many hours) causes aircraft accidents and I'll support the angry mob. Until then my personal opinion is we need to be looking at quality of training. After all this is something that can be backed with examples (Pinnacle, Comair, and Colgan accidents). |
Originally Posted by AirWillie
(Post 681322)
Exactly. The 1500 idea came because of the captain from 3407. The fact that he had 3500 at the time of the crash, and the fact that he only had 100 hours in the plane doesn't come up much. I wouldn't throw low timers under the bus now that we got ours.
Anyways the real interest for everyone is not the experience level, because a 3000 hour cessna driver will not know much from a 800 hour cessna driver when you put him in an RJ. Yes they will be able to pull out of a stall at 800 hours, even at 500 hours. But they both start from 0 at an airline. This is where airline training comes in. Well actually the FO had more than atp mins as a CFI when she was hired and she still raised the flaps at 20 degre pitch up. 1500 is just a band aid. The interest is money.:rolleyes: Better QOL because someone spent an extra weekend around the pattern with a DE in a Seminole. And hopefully there will be people that won't take low paying jobs because they have 1500.:rolleyes: That has worked really well the last 50 years hasn't it? What they should be doing is going after management and the numerous problems with training. I think airline training is lacking. I didn't and still don't have my ATP, but I know that I was able to operate safely. I agree with a previous poster, until the flying public is willing to pay the price for "safer" pilots, there won't be too many changes coming down the pike. |
It won't matter anyways. The next time airlines hire people will have well over 1500 hours.
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Originally Posted by sidelinesam
(Post 681338)
When I started my stint at a regional airline, I had 1600 hours and had provided 1100 hours dual given. There were a few folks in my class that had 400 hours total time and still had a long way to go PROCEDURALLY. I remember flying with some Captains who were quite relieved when I knew how to pick up a clearance at an uncontrolled field w/out their supervision! :eek:
I didn't and still don't have my ATP, but I know that I was able to operate safely. I agree with a previous poster, until the flying public is willing to pay the price for "safer" pilots, there won't be too many changes coming down the pike. |
Originally Posted by BSOuthisplace
(Post 681337)
Couple questions for the group.
What 135 op flying boxes, pax, lab work, checks etc is actively hiring pilots right now? What 121 accident has involved a pilot with less than 1500 hours? And if there is one, was his/her lack of hours directly attributed to the cause of the accident? Prove to me that a pure lack of experience (less than 1500, 2000, 3000 however many hours) causes aircraft accidents and I'll support the angry mob. Until then my personal opinion is we need to be looking at quality of training. After all this is something that can be backed with examples (Pinnacle, Comair, and Colgan accidents). |
First off I HAD over 1500 hours before my first regional job. Should there be an increase in the beginning wages? Yes. Is it the low time pilot's fault that we are in the mess that we are? No! It is the employers, they choose were to set there standards. Last time I checked every pilot in a 121 environment is held to ATP standards during every checkride. So if we are held to the same training standards what does it matter what the resume says. What this thread should be discussing is the total failure in the training department, that lead to the crash that started all this fuss.
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Originally Posted by BSOuthisplace
(Post 681337)
Couple questions for the group.
What 135 op flying boxes, pax, lab work, checks etc is actively hiring pilots right now? What 121 accident has involved a pilot with less than 1500 hours? And if there is one, was his/her lack of hours directly attributed to the cause of the accident? Prove to me that a pure lack of experience (less than 1500, 2000, 3000 however many hours) causes aircraft accidents and I'll support the angry mob. Until then my personal opinion is we need to be looking at quality of training. After all this is something that can be backed with examples (Pinnacle, Comair, and Colgan accidents). |
Originally Posted by sidelinesam
(Post 681338)
I remember flying with some Captains who were quite relieved when I knew how to pick up a clearance at an uncontrolled field w/out their supervision! :eek:
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Originally Posted by AirWillie
(Post 681349)
The whole argument was the the CA at Colgan only had like 600 when he was hired as an FO. The politicians then started to question things forgetting that the crew had a combined experience of more than 5000 hours that night... including the FO that had more than ATP mins when she was hired. I am very sure that the CA knew how to get out of a stall but he didn't, including th eFO that raised the flaps at 20 degree pitch up.
-pilots new to a type or variation of a type but with a considerable amount of previous experience They have enough experience that they are somewhat complacent but aren't quite settled into the nuances of the aircraft yet. - Pilots who have experience but are incompetent and have no business being airline pilots and through one way or the other have yet to be weeded out by the training department. These pilots are far more dangerous than a 300, 400 hour wonder who, has demonstrated competency during training. If training standards are raised and a 300 hour pilot can make it though, I say all the more power to em'. |
Accidents will happen very rarely (thank God) regardless of the experience in the cockpit. Setting the bar high is merely to weed people out. It is not entirely based on the relationship between experience and hours.
Lets face it, flying an airplane isn't that difficult. I believe it has more to do with innate personality and coolness under pressure than much anything else. That being said, still set the entry requirements high. Those who want it will figure out a way and those who don't/can't won't. The less pilots trying to live the dream, the better for all. |
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