Republic etc
 

I should know better than to put in my two cents, since it has no bearing on anything other than to have a go at a message board.
First, so anyone who cares knows up front,I am a Midwest Pilot soon to be furloughed. I have been reading off and on some of the exchanges on the board. They accomplish nothing other than to raise blood pressures.
To the Republic guys and gals. Most people know that none of you have had a thing to do with the dismantling of Midwest.We all should remember that a rank and file pilot has zero input to what management decisions are made and almost zero influence as to the decisions made by their union leadership. As has been pointed out, what do we expect them to do? Quit? Refuse to fly and be fired for insubordination?
As to the various comments regarding that ,basically, Midwest had it coming due to "their" ineptness. Well, not really. First, same as Republic pilots aren't at fault for their mgmt, neither are Midwest's. Secondly, we don't know what happened. Conspiracy theories abound. What we do know is that the dismantling of the airline by Seabury appears irrational based on available knowlege. Hence, to rationalize the events, we speculate as to the whys that lead us to the current situation. It is going to lead to airplanes being flown for lower labor costs and provide a precedent as to how to eliminate longevity costs. Simply put..bad for people who work for their daily bread(the bottom 90% of us), and good for those who make money by manipulating money(i.e.the financial sector, the TPG's etc..the top 10% of the population). This is quite possibly a planned occurance rather than simply a result of free market competition. So what do we do now?
1. Hope that Republic can make a go of this, whether we think it's fair or not. It's the only way that the unemployed of all three airline groups have a shot at flying soon. As to those that have found other jobs, best wishes,, but I think we should strive to have enough flying so everyone can say either "thank you for the job"..or if they so choose.."stick this job.....".
2. Reconize that everyone who is trained and qualified is,well, qualified. Disparaging each other just raises hackles. Every place I have worked has the good,the bad, and the ugly. I suspect Republic, Frontier, Lynx(who did I leave out?) and yes, Midwest are no exception.
3. Give people the benefit of the doubt as to their good will. Most people are decent who just want to be treated fair and be fair.There is always a % of exceptions.
I've more thoughts about all this, but this is already too long.
Curious as to the replys.

Thank you for your input. I only have one question, why wasn't Midwest sold to Airtran when they made their bid?. I can't imagine Republic's offer was better than Airtran's.
Anyhow, regardless of what, from a furloughed person I wish you good luck my friend.

I agree the line pilots at Republic have little contol over their union. Republics EXCO is a different story.

Talk about beating a dead horse. We get it. I don't think anyone out there seriously blames a RAH pilot for what their company is doing. And the other people that your post is meant for are going to continue to bash RAH because there is no other method for them to channel their frustration. Don't take anything on this regional forum too seriously, it's just a good way to pass the time. Best of luck to you, it's very unfortunate.

Excellent post and thankyou for your thoughts. Its nice to read a rational post every once and a while.


1) We work to integrate as fast as possible. No one will be happy, so lets hammer something out sooner than later to keep people off the street.

2) Once all 5 companies are one, lets work on a contract that reflects that of a major airline. It will come down to a strike vote. If this new company doesn't have industry standard wages or better and fair work rules, then burn the house down.

I look forward to flying with you

Oh pipe down Mr. GoJet.

I had a mainline captain the other day call the republic pilots scabs. I couldn't really say much about it as I was asking for the jumpseat, and what am I going to do, change his opinion? No, I'd screw myself out of a ride and he'd continue on blasting RAH pilots.

I just sat there and listened to him rant and rave about scope and everything else. I did ask him how the scope vote went down at DAL a few years ago. He did kind of quiet down after that. I think he got my point. All he said was he had worked too hard too long to fly little planes. MmmHmmmm.

I don't blame anybody for anything... well, except real scabs, airline execs and selfish folks like the ones at Freedom A and GoJet.

My thoughts exactly, I like the burn the house down part.

Well said from the original poster.

It wouldn't take very long to become a raging conflagration, either. The combined strength of a united pilot group's work stoppage would have an even more devestating effect on a" fee for departure airline" than a normal one because they not only are deprived of revenue but have to pay penalties to several legacy partners at the same time. The pilots at RAH have much more leverage than they know, if they only had the willingness to exercise it.

Republic pilots are building a reputation in the airline industry and it's not good.

We are building a not so good reputation with people who think that this all takes 3 days and a couple cases of beer to resolve. Most realize that this is going to take a little bit of time and that you can't buy 4 airlines and think everything will fall into place as soon as the ink drys. Tomorrow I believe everyone sits down together to get the ball rolling. Hopefully everyone is back flying ASAP and we can all start working towards a contract and payscale that looks somewhat like the ones both Midwest and Frontier are leaving.

If too much of this Midex vs. RAH vs. Frontier vs. Lynx stuff builds it not gonna help anyone working for an hourly wage. We are currently our own worst enemys. We need to get this SLI hammered out quickly and as soon as its done put our differences aside so we can come together and work together towards a better contract.

Pilots in the last year or so sure did not go to Gojet to get a head in seniority, and have nothing to do with the original ones as if it matters anyways. Again dead horse beating..

There is a big difference between someone who spent years at an airline that laid them off and they went to GoJet to keep paying the bills vs. someone like you who took it because it was the first thing that came along with having 250TT.

good luck telling that to 99.9% of people on his forum.

Words to the 600 hr pilots.

This is a small industry and all levels of pilots are involved in the interview process. Where you decide to fly and the actions of your pilot group are considered when majors are hiring.

We work in close quarters and you have to fit in with the membership.

Most GoJetters are weak low time pilots and then there are some experienced ones who need to desperately pay bills for their families (UA furloughed mainline guys).

Then there is you who bashes GoJet until you join up. You're the hypocrite pilot, congrats on having stong moral fiber :rolleyes: You sold yourself to be a management whipping boy.

What a sad, spiteful, and foolish man you are md80.

He/she may be a little over the top but what he/she said is the truth. Since I don't work in the industry any longer it's hard for me to get first hand accounts but my friends at SW, UAL, AA, FL and DAL are telling me that you guys are in fact getting a not so good reputation. If you don't think your reputation has any bearing on hiring patterns then you're foolish. Take one look at how many pilots from Comair have been hired at Delta recently.

Like I've said earlier, I ride on the Midwest 170's 5-6 times a month. I make a little effort to say hello to the crew. Some of the comments I get leave me speechless.

What are we earning a reputation for, showing up to work on time and performing our jobs? What else could we be earning a reputation for? It's a crappy situation but there's nothing illegal about. I, like most of us here, hope the Midwest folks come over and are integrated soon. Most of us understand that even more good jobs are being replaced by jobs less so. There are plenty like me who hope the groups at all the majors lock down scope for all our betterment. You superior major folks allowed for this and now you judge the poor shmucks dealing with low wages and inferior work rules for longer and longer periods of time in our quest for a job with a good company. Additionally, you actually have the gall to threaten our ability to move on from jobs you all created? What a bunch of unbelievable hypocrites and Bozos many of you are.

I don't make the rules I just have to live with them. The simply fact is that pilots have long memories and whether it's warranted or not, reputation of a pilots previous employer has a direct bearing on success in moving up in your career. Calling the people that you may want to join someday Bozos probably isn't helping your cause.

I think the major problem most people have has nothing to do with the individual pilots. It's your EXCO that is really the problem. You aren't making many friends when FAPA has already, prior to the close of their transaction, reached out to the Midwest pilots and it's been a year and nothing from your EXCO. They really didn't say anything important. Just acknowledge that the Midwest pilots exist.

Another thing is when people are losing their jobs, homes, cars, etc. and something could be done to potentially relieve this and your EXCO are delaying this, it's going to cause problems. When you are losing much of what you built for the last 20+ years everyday is an emergency. Your EXCO's want to do everything together really is not all that important when people are losing homes, children can't finish college, people filing for medical BQ because they can't afford cobra or divorce rates skyrocketing because of the stress.

Even if the Midwest folks were able to get a relative seniority integration, it really doesn't help anything because almost all of the pilots would still be taking a 50% pay cut and most (many already have)could find much better positions outside aviation. Only the very senior(like always) will be able to make anything of this situation.

Like I said, most of us have nothing negative against the RAH pilots (besides some of the clueless SJS victims)but their union has much to be desired.

Please read the original post. This is a guy that has his world crashing in around him and yet he holds hope for the future, does not hold his fellow pilots responsible, as he recognizes the pilot groups have little to do with the current situation.

Almost 50% of the entire RAH seniority list was hired in 2007. They had no clue what they were getting into. Most of them had 1000+ coming in and several came over from other regionals hoping for a faster upgrade and/or to work for a more respected airline. That has now collapsed around them. They are being bashed as scabs and probably will have the one of the longest upgrades of any regional.

Clearly the original poster has a much higher degree of professionalism and integrity than the bashers on here. I pray for him and his family that his furlough or job search will be short and that his example is followed by the majority of pilots.

This may explain the bragging attitude by Republic pilots... "its our flying now".

Dude, we all had to pay our dues.

It took me over 7 years before flying my first jet aircraft. You guys seem to want instant everything.

You beat me, it took me ten years to see my first jet and two companies folding along the way. There may be a lot of right out of flight school 1000 hour types here and at all the other regionals, but we're not all like that. I've never claimed to want anything instantly, I've worked long and hard to get to where I am. I was more than qualified to accept a position in the right seat of this jet. You guys got shafted by capitalism, no doubt about it. But you didn't get shafted by the pilots at Republic. Not a single pilot here hired on with the intention of taking your job! Whether you choose to see it or not right now through all your emotion, all pilots at all the regionals were shafted a little by what's happening. The smart ones here realize it and believe me, we lament it. I'm not downplaying at all the significance of what's happening to you and your peers so don't jump down my throat for stating a fact. For the final time, you have and always have had my support.

Some of you are also building quite a reputation for yourselves with the unearned childish attacks of RAH pilots. How fortunate for you that you can hide behind your anonymity.

If creating the very situation all regional pilots suffer under and then attacking them for not changing the market forces they have absolutely no control over isn't acting like a Bozo, I don't know what would be.

I just reread my post. I didn't see where I wrote "it's our flying now". Furthermore, how can anyone who comprehends the English language infer that from what I wrote? As far as the job taking bragging that is mentioned ad nauseum on this forum, bull $hit!

So I guess you are calling me a liar. Saw it first hand along with the guy who told he was glad to help us out. Remember I worked there briefly. You have more than your share clueless dweebs. Much higher ratio than the 3 other airlines I've worked for.

Nope, I'm not calling you a liar. In fact I have a lot of respect for you and the thoughtful posts you write. Our definitions of "bragging about taking jobs" evidently differ. Based on what you wrote, I agree that his words can only be interpreted as coming from an insensitive clueless dweeb. It doesn't smack of bragging though, just stupidity. You would be surprised at how many good people there are here who are heartsick at what's happening to the YXers and the domestic scene I'm general.

To the gentleman who started this thread, you're a class act and I wish you the best. With that I'm through with this forum as well.
Too much like flightinfo.

First, best of luck to the origional poster. I hope integration brings everyone back to a job and we can get back to business as usual.

Second, there seem to be a stereotype for Republic pilots. After reading this forum for the past year, I have learned that I am a scab, that I was responsible for our pay rates, that I am personally taking jobs from people much senior to me, and a few other gems. Of course I'm being overly dramatic here, but there seem to be a few people on this forum who believe all this. In truth, all I and everyone I've talked to here think this is a generally crappy situation. The majority of RAH pilots just want a fair integration, and we really hope the Midwest pilots can get back in the air. Maybe not in the same form as before, but it's all we can do.

I'm sure there are a few tools out there who will brag about it being our flying, but you will never hear those words from my mouth. I hope the stupidity of a few idiots doesn't continue to tarnish the entire Republic pilot group, not that our reputation can fall much farther.

So just where exactly should we all have gone to get jobs flying turboprops when there aren't THAT many out there to begin with? I'm pretty sure Comair, Republic, Trans States, GoJet, PSA, Air Wisconsin, and ExpressJet to name a few operate an all jet fleet. Skywest, ASA, Mesa, and Eagle are mostly jets as well as far as I know. So again, look at that many RJ jobs, and regardless of what you think about their existence, where would you have had all of those pilots go to find turboprop jobs that didn't exist just because they should have to fly them first before tey get to fly a jet?

willie,
gotta say sir always inspired. always inspired. TSA Fall/Winter 07 hire? maybe? brian? dude seriously you shouldn't post here, for once the spotlight is off you....dude enjoy it, seriously enjoy it, this IS a free pass, take it. JUST TAKE IT. In all seriousness though, in all seriousness, willie boy, keep up the good work, you inspire all of us..........:eek:. take care brosif

Question
 

Deleted...................

Funny how you only see that door as swinging one way. You keep saying how your managements decisions shouldn't be held against you and how "you don't make the rules you just live with them" but for some reason you can't see how that applies to other pilot groups.

We've strayed far from the original post that started this thread, which was from someone that I have likely flown with, and most likely admire and respect. But what has happened in the thread since then is why an arbitrated seniority integration is necessary, and very soon, since every day that passes, another Midwest pilot hits the street, real people with real lives that are being turned upside down.

To the OP: Classy post sir. I wish you all the best. I have exercised the supposed "direct relationship" with we have here at JB to suggest preferential interviews and/or hiring when we begin hiring again- sadly I have no idea when that may be.

To my former RAH brethren, I get the defensiveness to a point. But why do you keep pointing out YX's allegedly failed business model, while ignoring the fact that BB obviously intends on continuing the YX brand. Are you as vocal with the EXCO that you want a fair and fast integration to get YX guys back to work, as you are defending yourselves on here? Why is it so hard to simply admit out loud that you've been used directly as low-cost replacement labor and it's not okay?

Great post. Are you Republic PILOTS reading this?

Whatever dude. Selective reading I guess. I'm on record stating the problem is with your EXCO. They seem clueless and inconsiderate at best. If I was a part of your union I would be ashamed. Doesn't give the YX and F9 guys a warm fuzzy feeling about their likely representatives in the future.

I believe you and I have flown together also and I wholeheartedly agree wrt the need for an arbitrator. In fact I expect that an arbitration will be the best chance for those of us who were furloughed nearly a year now to to get an offer that is well, lets just say a job offer. For some that will be enough.

If we get hammered again, well that will just complete the trifecta. :(

I agree. I don't share the same feeling the original poster has. I for one do not care about a "fair integration". I hope it goes to arbitration and we finally get the justice that has been denied us now for over a year. Again, what happens to the Republic pilots is their problem. Our furloughed pilots lost their jobs because they were REPLACED by lower paid, less experienced flight crews. There is no other way to put it. This is nothing but a complete lockout of YX pilots whose jobs were taken by a willing pilot group who have remained silent and unconcerned about those they have wrecked.

D.R.
Whacked by Republic

We will learn the true reason for the Midwest pilot lock-out soon. Republics EXCO will start to show his/her cards during integration talks this week.