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Why would salaries increase? Most of you operate under a collective bargaining agreement that your union negotiated and your pilot group agreed to. Just because the hiring requirements have been raised doesn't mean management will go scrambling to bump everyone's pay in order to attract new talent.
If anything, you will see a meager to modest signing bonus, which we already saw a few years ago when Mesa and CHQ were offering a few thousand to typed rated RJ pilots to jump ship after they passed the checkride somewhere else.
Perhaps they would offer free sim time to boost hours like Eagle was doing.
If you guys want to be paid more.. I suggest you have a conversation with your union rep.
It's very simple, you raise the salary if no one shows up with 1500 mins. Yea it probably won't be drastic qol improvements because of the cbas and the backlog of qualified pilots out of a job but it's the right step.Originally Posted by RemoveB4flght
Some of you really crack me up...Why would salaries increase? Most of you operate under a collective bargaining agreement that your union negotiated and your pilot group agreed to. Just because the hiring requirements have been raised doesn't mean management will go scrambling to bump everyone's pay in order to attract new talent.
If anything, you will see a meager to modest signing bonus, which we already saw a few years ago when Mesa and CHQ were offering a few thousand to typed rated RJ pilots to jump ship after they passed the checkride somewhere else.
Perhaps they would offer free sim time to boost hours like Eagle was doing.
If you guys want to be paid more.. I suggest you have a conversation with your union rep.
Certainly a "locked in" CBA will continue until it expires. The leverage will really kick in after all the furloughees are called back and the next contract is on the table.
I believe this "could" lead to good things regarding pay for all the reasons stated.
Many go down the road of questioning whether we need greater experience in the cockpit. This should be a given. However, the greater issue is merely raising the barrier to entry that much higher. By the very token of the extra runway needed to be traveled to arrive into an interview, the supply of pilots who make it will reduce. Will it be enough to force higher wages? Time will tell.
I believe this "could" lead to good things regarding pay for all the reasons stated.
Many go down the road of questioning whether we need greater experience in the cockpit. This should be a given. However, the greater issue is merely raising the barrier to entry that much higher. By the very token of the extra runway needed to be traveled to arrive into an interview, the supply of pilots who make it will reduce. Will it be enough to force higher wages? Time will tell.
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The problem is that a signing bonus violates all the CBAs out there. That was tried in 2006-07 and the unions put a stop to it.Originally Posted by RemoveB4flght
If anything, you will see a meager to modest signing bonus, which we already saw a few years ago when Mesa and CHQ were offering a few thousand to typed rated RJ pilots to jump ship after they passed the checkride somewhere else.
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Right. But if (hopefully) companies absolutely cannot find enough qualified people to work at the CBA wages, management could be forced to renegotiate contracts BEFORE the amendable date. At that time the pilot group could agree to allow signing bonuses (or other forms of pay increases) IF the increases were across the board.Originally Posted by sweptback
The problem is that a signing bonus violates all the CBAs out there. That was tried in 2006-07 and the unions put a stop to it.
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If you meet all the times/requirements you should be recalled and given the ATP/Type ride as your requalification PC.... Of course in this industry as you know should and do are often worlds apart...Originally Posted by joemhama
So what about the folks who are working as FO's right now, or who are furloughed that dont have the ATP? Is there a grandfather clause in there, or would the company have to pay for the ATP? For instance I have 2600 TT but no ATP (I was supposed to get that when I upgraded, but I got furloughed instead...)
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What this accomplishes is removing the high school graduate 90 day zero to hero regional FO. A big step forward for the industry. Hard to demand better pay when your FOs were working at McDonalds 3 months ago. Even if you hate the college exception, if Babbit lowers the Riddle requirements to 250 hours (and he wont) it'll still take 4 years. At least we can pretend we had to work hard to get there, maybe even approach the same league as other professionals? Not a lot of 19 year old 90-day program doctors out there.Originally Posted by TPROP4ever
I was really hoping most pilots would be very careful about jumping the gun on this and now I bet some will gripe, but all we can say is we got exactly what we asked for, with a few changes courtesy of the lobbies' (AND DONT TELL ME YOU WERE SO NIEVE THAT YOU THOUGHT IT COULDNT HAPPEN) The ATP provision is still in there, its just now they will allow credit for certain flight programs. Basically if you attend Embry Riddle you will now qualify for an ATP at 500 ( or some arbitrary lower number) instead of 1500 hrs, or thats how I read it. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we screwed ourselves. So now we will still have 500 hour pilots in the right seat, but they will now have an ATP instead of a CMEL. That is all we accomplished.........
Plus the fatigue stuff.
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Originally Posted by sweptback
The problem is that a signing bonus violates all the CBAs out there. That was tried in 2006-07 and the unions put a stop to it.
There are 2 big keys to that... 1 Get rid of the horribly antiquated "railway labour act" and
2 Have the unions remove head from arse.
God forbid newhires have it better than some crusty old SOB that couldn't/wouldn't move on 15 years ago and now thanks to age 65 rule won't retire for another 3-5 years.
just because they didn't get that so now nobody else should either.... My response is "you should have bothered to save your own money for retirement". Don't rely on someone else (pensions, social security) to foot your retirement. Go stand at the door at walmart like the rest of the uneducated unprepared old farts.
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Secondly, it might not be all bad. Even if these students can get hired at a lower time they will have to finish a 4 year degree. Also, Riddle, like the other universities, is no cake walk. Granted we're not getting PhDs in Philosophy here but the drop out rate for university pilots is very high.
Also, keep in mind these pilots have to get through said degree. The big problem today is you can go to All ATP or Gulfstream and be in the saddle in 6 months. Even the fastest trip through Riddle is 4 years. This will help regulate the pilot supply and not create a huge influx of fresh faces the moment airlines start interviewing again.
So even if its as bad as we all thing, the loophole will still do us some good. The percentage of pilots willing to go through the university system and are able to complete it is rather small and even still, they will not be able to rush in the moment times are good. This will be a good thing for us in the long term, I believe.
I graduated from Riddle a while ago. Have now been working as a pilot for 8 years with 6,000 flight hours. So, my gripe comes from experiencing both sides. The loophole is crap. Riddle does a descent job educating, not providing experience. This will subvert the safety intent of the bill.Originally Posted by iPilot
First off I'm not going to cry foul on the Riddle loophole until we find out just how much credit they're willing to give. Secondly, it might not be all bad. Even if these students can get hired at a lower time they will have to finish a 4 year degree. Also, Riddle, like the other universities, is no cake walk. Granted we're not getting PhDs in Philosophy here but the drop out rate for university pilots is very high.
Also, keep in mind these pilots have to get through said degree. The big problem today is you can go to All ATP or Gulfstream and be in the saddle in 6 months. Even the fastest trip through Riddle is 4 years. This will help regulate the pilot supply and not create a huge influx of fresh faces the moment airlines start interviewing again.
So even if its as bad as we all thing, the loophole will still do us some good. The percentage of pilots willing to go through the university system and are able to complete it is rather small and even still, they will not be able to rush in the moment times are good. This will be a good thing for us in the long term, I believe.
I learned more in my first month working as a pilot than I did in four years at Riddle. Because of the highly-structured, hold my hand please sir environment, Riddle releases some of the worst prepared pilots to the work force.
Book knowledge will help with the training part of airline flying. The actual flying, decision making and good judgment are far more important. And knowing how to work through odd situations as they come your way.
By the way, wrote both my Senators on this one. Though I don't think it likely they will notice. I live on the non-favored side of the state. The side where the votes don't matter.
Personally I love the part that this decision was made in part because the fo had not been in icing before.
#1 not true, what she said was she has not seen icing this bad before coming to an airline in the northeast.
#2 Joe college will some how see icing in the class room or in the 152 he is now out time building in for the next 1250 hours.
Politicians are a joke!
#1 not true, what she said was she has not seen icing this bad before coming to an airline in the northeast.
#2 Joe college will some how see icing in the class room or in the 152 he is now out time building in for the next 1250 hours.
Politicians are a joke!
The only ones who will make more $$$ from this are the schools. They have even a better selling point now. "We can get you around that pesky 1500hr thing if come to our university". UGH.
