Even more qualified pilots on the street...
11-16-2009 | 07:48 PM
#161
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
We have an estimated 1.5 TRILLION barrels along the western slope of Colorado extending from Grand Junction, Colorado on into eastern Utah.
Green River Formation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Green River Formation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Seriously, you're right that the stuff is out there (along with the oil extracted from sand in Canada) the process you have to use to get it out is pretty scary though. Not exactly environmentally pretty. As you previously mentioned, also very expensive.
11-16-2009 | 07:56 PM
#162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
From: 767 FO
Oil shale, super. Lets destroy yet another beautiful place so fatties can drive their SUV's to McDonalds to stuff their faces.
Seriously, you're right that the stuff is out there (along with the oil extracted from sand in Canada) the process you have to use to get it out is pretty scary though. Not exactly environmentally pretty. As you previously mentioned, also very expensive.
Seriously, you're right that the stuff is out there (along with the oil extracted from sand in Canada) the process you have to use to get it out is pretty scary though. Not exactly environmentally pretty. As you previously mentioned, also very expensive.
I hope that the Western Slope stays the way it is. It is an incredible place off most radars. Needs to stay that way.
11-17-2009 | 09:22 AM
#163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 0
Don't kid yourself. This is the human race you're talking about. Whenever it happens, 5, 10, 50 years down the road, when the supply runs low we'll take the Rockies down to sea level without a backward glance to satisfy our rapacious appetite for energy.
11-17-2009 | 06:54 PM
#164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
From: Right Seat
Hey NoHandHold,
I know what you are getting at, but you left out a few companies that collapsed last year that have a significant number of pilots on the street or ones that were hired and furloughed again by their new company. I think that you should take these numbers into account when calculating your total furloughed number. This includes: Skybus, FocusAir, Cargo360, Silverjet, Maxjet, Kitty Hawk Air Cargo, Gemini Air Cargo, Anheuser-Busch Flight Department, GM Flight Department, etc.
Also, Flexjet, FlightOptions, Citation Shares, PlaneSense, Dayjet, etc. have a large number of pilots on furlough. I would expect that this mini-Depression (OK, "Great Recession") has the number of total unemployed or underemployed (I.E., CFI's with only 1 student) to be pushing the 10,000 mark. Just the number from the incomplete list above should push it to 9K. Heck, there are probably still some Braniff, Eastern, Pan AM, Emery, Tower Air, Kiwi, Legend, Reliant, West Air, etc. pilots on the street, having been through multiple bankruptcies.
My point is that there are more qualified people on the street than we realize. On the other hand, I disagree with the pilots here that expect the rate of student starts to increase with increased demand. There are not THAT many trust fund babies out there that will be willing to put up with the new reality of this career. Just look at the press regarding pilots lately, Sully not withstanding. Pilots overworked, underpaid, and living in their cars in the LAX parking lot. Just today, when a girl asked a friend of mine what he did.. He said "I am a pilot..." And she said, disapprovingly, "Oh..." That did not happen until recently.. Not only has the public's respect for our profession fallen this decade, I think that our own confidence and self-respect has waned also. We have taken hits from all sides, and continue to do so.
Next, the unlikely positive is that this economy may start working in our collective favor. I know that sounds crazy, but consider this: The word is out on the street; Pilots DO NOT make a lot of money anymore and the job is no longer glamorous. The Congressional Hearings on the Colgan FO's $16000.00/YR. salary helped bring this into the light. Kit Darby is no longer making millions telling pilot wannabes how great a career this is and that "your dream job is out there". He was selling that same line in the black days of the early nineties when thousands of pilots were getting furloughed, but people were paying $195 a pop to attend pilot job fairs where nobody was hiring. I used to tell my peeps that if I ever won the Powerball (you know, the BIG Powerball), that I would stand out in front of Kit Darby's AirInc Job Fairs (with my posse, of course..) and hand pilots $195 cash NOT to attend. Of course, I would provide them with the same contact and hiring information to them FREE OF CHARGE, like it should be. Anyway, he's not out there blowing sunshine to CNN like he used to. And let's not forget going to the bank for a loan. Sure, we will always have the kids whose family paid for everything and are CRJ Captains at 24... But that's not the average. It used to be that getting a student loan or JTPA grant was as simple as going to the bank and saying "Please loan me this money so I can become a commercial pilot and make $300,000/Yr.". The word is out... Pilots don't make that kind of money anymore and English Literature Majors are likely to make more money. The banks won't loan money to people who want something of value that can be repossesed (houses and cars): What makes you guys think that banks will make these loans to pilots like they used to? Unlike Doctors wanting a loan to start their practice, with us there is no way to guarantee that we will succeed or stay successful.
Finally, the "pilot shortage" that I have been hearing about for 20 years may never really happen, but the source of pilots is definitely drying up... Kit Darby is gone, the Military has cut back and increased length of duty requirements, Mesa has stopped it's ab initio program, Gulfstream has slowed down with furloughs and bad press,aviation training, rental and fuel prices have jumped, and student loans have come to a standstill.
While I am not an optimist regarding this industry, I think that the above challenges will make it increasingly difficult for those who haven't already invested too much to quit, to get their fix of "shiny jet syndrome". Much like the aspiring actress that goes to Hollywood to find silver screen stardom, only to find herself in the adult film industry is where we find ourselves in this industry today. We collectively love what we do more than any group of people I know, even musicians... We just love the music too much, and the aviation industry meatgrinder knows this. But maybe, the lack of loans, student starts, bad press, etc. might slow the flow enough to make those pilots who hang on careers better. I'm not counting on it, though.
Best of luck to you all in this crazy biz....
In Unity,
B727DRVR
I know what you are getting at, but you left out a few companies that collapsed last year that have a significant number of pilots on the street or ones that were hired and furloughed again by their new company. I think that you should take these numbers into account when calculating your total furloughed number. This includes: Skybus, FocusAir, Cargo360, Silverjet, Maxjet, Kitty Hawk Air Cargo, Gemini Air Cargo, Anheuser-Busch Flight Department, GM Flight Department, etc.
Also, Flexjet, FlightOptions, Citation Shares, PlaneSense, Dayjet, etc. have a large number of pilots on furlough. I would expect that this mini-Depression (OK, "Great Recession") has the number of total unemployed or underemployed (I.E., CFI's with only 1 student) to be pushing the 10,000 mark. Just the number from the incomplete list above should push it to 9K. Heck, there are probably still some Braniff, Eastern, Pan AM, Emery, Tower Air, Kiwi, Legend, Reliant, West Air, etc. pilots on the street, having been through multiple bankruptcies.
My point is that there are more qualified people on the street than we realize. On the other hand, I disagree with the pilots here that expect the rate of student starts to increase with increased demand. There are not THAT many trust fund babies out there that will be willing to put up with the new reality of this career. Just look at the press regarding pilots lately, Sully not withstanding. Pilots overworked, underpaid, and living in their cars in the LAX parking lot. Just today, when a girl asked a friend of mine what he did.. He said "I am a pilot..." And she said, disapprovingly, "Oh..." That did not happen until recently.. Not only has the public's respect for our profession fallen this decade, I think that our own confidence and self-respect has waned also. We have taken hits from all sides, and continue to do so.
Next, the unlikely positive is that this economy may start working in our collective favor. I know that sounds crazy, but consider this: The word is out on the street; Pilots DO NOT make a lot of money anymore and the job is no longer glamorous. The Congressional Hearings on the Colgan FO's $16000.00/YR. salary helped bring this into the light. Kit Darby is no longer making millions telling pilot wannabes how great a career this is and that "your dream job is out there". He was selling that same line in the black days of the early nineties when thousands of pilots were getting furloughed, but people were paying $195 a pop to attend pilot job fairs where nobody was hiring. I used to tell my peeps that if I ever won the Powerball (you know, the BIG Powerball), that I would stand out in front of Kit Darby's AirInc Job Fairs (with my posse, of course..) and hand pilots $195 cash NOT to attend. Of course, I would provide them with the same contact and hiring information to them FREE OF CHARGE, like it should be. Anyway, he's not out there blowing sunshine to CNN like he used to. And let's not forget going to the bank for a loan. Sure, we will always have the kids whose family paid for everything and are CRJ Captains at 24... But that's not the average. It used to be that getting a student loan or JTPA grant was as simple as going to the bank and saying "Please loan me this money so I can become a commercial pilot and make $300,000/Yr.". The word is out... Pilots don't make that kind of money anymore and English Literature Majors are likely to make more money. The banks won't loan money to people who want something of value that can be repossesed (houses and cars): What makes you guys think that banks will make these loans to pilots like they used to? Unlike Doctors wanting a loan to start their practice, with us there is no way to guarantee that we will succeed or stay successful.
Finally, the "pilot shortage" that I have been hearing about for 20 years may never really happen, but the source of pilots is definitely drying up... Kit Darby is gone, the Military has cut back and increased length of duty requirements, Mesa has stopped it's ab initio program, Gulfstream has slowed down with furloughs and bad press,aviation training, rental and fuel prices have jumped, and student loans have come to a standstill.
While I am not an optimist regarding this industry, I think that the above challenges will make it increasingly difficult for those who haven't already invested too much to quit, to get their fix of "shiny jet syndrome". Much like the aspiring actress that goes to Hollywood to find silver screen stardom, only to find herself in the adult film industry is where we find ourselves in this industry today. We collectively love what we do more than any group of people I know, even musicians... We just love the music too much, and the aviation industry meatgrinder knows this. But maybe, the lack of loans, student starts, bad press, etc. might slow the flow enough to make those pilots who hang on careers better. I'm not counting on it, though.
Best of luck to you all in this crazy biz....
In Unity,
B727DRVR
Long read but worth it... the history of the late 90s and early 2000 flight schools is exactly that.... history.
\
Second your post.
11-17-2009 | 08:09 PM
#165
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Fatties
Oil shale, super. Lets destroy yet another beautiful place so fatties can drive their SUV's to McDonalds to stuff their faces.
Seriously, you're right that the stuff is out there (along with the oil extracted from sand in Canada) the process you have to use to get it out is pretty scary though. Not exactly environmentally pretty. As you previously mentioned, also very expensive.
Seriously, you're right that the stuff is out there (along with the oil extracted from sand in Canada) the process you have to use to get it out is pretty scary though. Not exactly environmentally pretty. As you previously mentioned, also very expensive.
Skyhigh
11-17-2009 | 08:23 PM
#166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,048
Likes: 0
From: Self employed
I was recently at a strip bar contemplating a lap dance, or what's behind door number two, when the silicone / botox enhanced hottie asked me what I did for a living. I just said, "airline pilot", assuming that she would think that I was kidding anyway.
She kinda curled up her upper lip, and told me that she thought that was a terrible job that doesn't pay well, works long hours, blah, blah.
The word is out. And I chose door number two.
She kinda curled up her upper lip, and told me that she thought that was a terrible job that doesn't pay well, works long hours, blah, blah.
The word is out. And I chose door number two.
11-18-2009 | 06:17 AM
#167
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Nice story
I was recently at a strip bar contemplating a lap dance, or what's behind door number two, when the silicone / botox enhanced hottie asked me what I did for a living. I just said, "airline pilot", assuming that she would think that I was kidding anyway.
She kinda curled up her upper lip, and told me that she thought that was a terrible job that doesn't pay well, works long hours, blah, blah.
The word is out. And I chose door number two.
She kinda curled up her upper lip, and told me that she thought that was a terrible job that doesn't pay well, works long hours, blah, blah.
The word is out. And I chose door number two.
Skyhigh
11-18-2009 | 10:20 AM
#169
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 41
From: Middle Seat
I was recently at a strip bar contemplating a lap dance, or what's behind door number two, when the silicone / botox enhanced hottie asked me what I did for a living. I just said, "airline pilot", assuming that she would think that I was kidding anyway.
She kinda curled up her upper lip, and told me that she thought that was a terrible job that doesn't pay well, works long hours, blah, blah.
The word is out. And I chose door number two.
She kinda curled up her upper lip, and told me that she thought that was a terrible job that doesn't pay well, works long hours, blah, blah.
The word is out. And I chose door number two.
The "Ballet"
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