Well, I gave notice today that I am deferring. I have no time or patience to put up with this crap.

I did the same.

Hey, if it works for the planes, why not for you? :D

You guys need to slap some orange stickers on your forehead. Hell, a DMI tattoo would look pretty classy too.

Before awarding this contract United wants a TSA contract completeted with the pilots. TSA MEC wants single pilot list. Company doesn't want this to happen. No pilot contract, no flying contract. You guys wait in the mean time.

Stop spreading rumors.

It would make sense though.

Why would UAL award flying to a company whose pilots have already voted to authorize a strike?

(I do realize we're talking about UAL here and nothing they do makes sense anyways)

Are you guys serious? Do you honestly think United even remotely cares about tsa pilots? Hulas has provided cheap and relatively reliable CRJ700 and ERJ service. That's all they care about, not the pilots. Especially in this economy.

They don't care about the pilots. They do, however, care about the impact a strike at one of their feeders would have on their revenue income. So, the rumor that UAL wants a contract secured before awarding flying to TSA seems like a believable rumor. I don't believe it but no one cares what I think.

Of course UAL thinks about it when making their decision, but I imagine management will be spinning things in a positive direction in their talks with UAL. They'll say that talks are finally making some significant progress and they think a TA is right around the corner. Management wants this flying as much as we do so they'll say what they have to. UAL is not stupid enough to think we could come to any kind of agreement by the time the flying is awarded so that rumor is just silly.

Well I think that's a given. I'm saying that at this point united cares about the price. Right now, there are enough pilots available, furloughed and street, and airplanes can be found. I sincerely doubt tsa would allow a strike to happen, because as I understand it we don't have outrageous demands just industry standard ones, it's going to be a last minute deal on the last hour as usual. They're telling UA whatever they want to hear. And I'm sure that Hulas whether he gets this or not knows that he can't delay the negotiations much longer anyways.

false alarm...so who did win the RFP?

Well that was fun.

I am not surprised at all

The official memo:

So do we know who got the flying? I imagine it's either Skywest or ExpressJet but those are just wild guesses.

Heard it was xjet. Congrats to them!
Apparently, UAL offered a 5 year contract, and TSA could only get 7 year leases on a/c. UAL couldnt offer 7 years in writting so TSA turned them down. That sounds like TSA.
http://vulgrin.com/wp-content/upload...n-clapping.gif

Does anyone know who got the flying?

Damn. No matter who dropped the ball (can't tell from this information), the fact that UA expects a regional to ramp up so quickly is just indicative that no one has a clue what is going to happen around the next curve. Its seems this sort of thing should have a lead time associated with it to formally get all the ducks in a row.

No matter how this whole thing is sugar coated by Leach and his cronies, it just exemplifies the TOTAL lack of professionalism by all involved.

No it wasn't.. Back in the hole we go for another year. Good luck with the upcoming strike fellas, looks like it will have to be a strike now anyways.... I need a drink.:o

I'm not convinced that the recall notices were necessary. If they were, and the other company bidding had a similar contract to ours, they would have had to send out their notices too...unless they're insanely overstaffed. TSA management completely blew this and I'm ****ed. I still have a job but there are others out there who just got jerked around so badly, it's unbelievable.

Yea. The same airline that had no problem flying 15 airplanes which were borrowed from AMR that could have been taken away at any time like they eventually were. No growth for 5 years because of extra leases? Unbelievable.

Way to treat us like real human beings TSA.

Can't really say that I am too shocked that this all fell through. As always, only the bad rumors are true. What a way to treat people, especially when you expect them to return at some point. I would rather fly a kite than for TSA.

So does this mean that everyone that ended up deferring are now below everyone that accepted the recall when another one comes? The wording of the letter said "If you choose to defer your recall you will remain furloughed until a mandatory recall."

I sure hope when the next recall comes it was as if this never happened.

After this episode, I doubt people will come back next time if there ever will be one.

We really do have morons in charge. Where is XJET on this? How come they didn't send recall letters a week before like we "had" to?

We'll see you at the picket lines!!

XJET is NOT TSA.

This is truly pathetic.....I cannot imagine how demoralizing this is for TSA furloughs and downgrades.

I'd like to know what xjets notice policy is per their CBA. Our contract at TSA demands a 30 day notice of recall if I remember correctly....so yeah I buy that they had to send out notices. What pi**es me off is that they did not tell us they were still working on the deal. Why hide the fact?

You know this whole recall notice came about during contract negotiations.

I wonder how they're going to spin this at the negotiating table. We didn't get the flying so we can't afford to pay you decent wages. Burn it down Waterskiers! This is the beginning of the end for TSA. It's going to continue to shrink while Gojet will double and eventually takeover.

Basically 24 days...but I don't know why we'd need to recall in November for flying in May.

From the XJT CBA:

2. After delivery of a recall notice, a pilot will have 10 days to notify the Company
in writing that he is accepting recall or is electing to defer. A pilot will have at
least 14 days after acceptance of recall to report for duty. A pilot may defer
recall without forfeiting his seniority rights provided there is a furloughed pilot
junior to him on the seniority list. A pilot who elects to defer recall is not eligible
for pay protection from that deferral. He will return only as vacancies occur in
accordance with seniority.

So let me get this straight before I dive into alcoholism this weekend, because I seriously can't belive they allowed this to slip away. TSA, an airline that has been downsizing for the past year and a half, which will most likely be be integrated or cease ops in a year or two now with the possibility of a pilot strike, actually came within second and quite possibly first in line with the opportunity to get a 5 year 50 seat contract with United, out of 9 airlines!?!?!?!?
But they didn't agree with the final contract(during this economic period of all things) because they might have had to pay their own leases two more years after the deal was up in 2015!!!
And they couldn't get good rates for those two years???? How much do you think a 50 seat RJ will be worth in 7 years, TSA??? And in re-negotiations of leases with UA for more flying????
A King Air will be worth more than a 50 seat ERJ in 2016/2017!!!

If they didn't feel comfortable with this, what the F else could they be comfortable with? They take pride in being conservative but they're not doing a very good job consideirng half the pilot work force is about gone. When will TSA managment be willing to take a risk? When the stars align??? Sorry for my drunken rant, it feels like we all took a great big company punch in the gut with this. The level of disrespect for the employees is just unbelievable. I'll see you guys later. Looks like our only hope is a long battle with the company to take back what's ours in negotiations.

I strongly believe that this November recall for flying, that wasn't supposed to surface till May, was some form of negotiating table tactic to prevent a strike in early 2010.

Once again more depressing news at TSA. I don't know why United would even consider us when we've voted to strike, because of there relaxed negotiations. I don't see how we could be under bid or not agree to a contract when we are close to last as far as the pay scale goes to 50 seat jets. I can't remember the last time we've got any flying that we had to negotiate. Let's all thank United for including more pilot groups to help pay for the airline by making us pay to commute to work. Good luck Xjet and ASA, enjoy another payroll deduction.

Never thought about it that way, but you are 100% correct. The thing is if they did what they did, secured the flying, they are heroes.......and wouldnt it be nice to be the hero when you are in contract negotiations.

for those of us still working at this dump, let this serve as a reminder of why there is such a strong strike vote, and when the time comes (which should have been a long time ago), stick it back to the SOB's!

Management really jumped the gun here. Some forethought on their part would be nice.

I feel for everyone involved in this mess. 11 months ago, a decision process that took me 6 months to work through resulted in my decision to resign from the company instead of dealing with the furlough mess. There were a slew of reasons, the primary being the opportunity cost lost in doing something else more productive with my time than to wait around to be f'ed at the exclusive whim of TSA (in more ways than one).

I'll admit, when the news of this recall came out, I felt a tad of remorse for the decision I made and even had a tough time sleeping that night. While I felt great for my old TSA buddies, I knew the road that I committed to 11 months ago wouldn't lead to another professional cockpit for at least 3 or 4 years - 1 of those is nearly up now.

However, this whole debacle totally obliterated any remorseful feelings I had and just served to reiterate to myself the thought process I went through before I went in and dumped my stuff on DH's desk.

I figured TSA wouldn't recall for a loooong time and hedged my bets that even if they did recall, it would coincide with the beginning of a marked industry wide rebound. That marked growth would lead to the ability to get on with a company that is potentially worth a damn.

Long story short - if you've got something else - AT ALL - and TSA is your only game plan right now, I'd strongly suggest a change in path if at all possible. This recent episode just proves that their view of managing employees is akin to placing an order for airplane tires - "opps, I'd like to cancel my order!"

And once again, mangement shows their true colors when it comes to the ability to run a successful airline. And lest we forget, this isn't just a slam to all of the furloughed pilots (myself included), this is bad news for the whole group. F/O's that are on endless reserve, downgraded captains and just everyone in general.

I was very leary about all of this from the word go and I said I would not give my answer until there was news. Thankfully, I am still employed elsewhere and hopefully I won't have to count on going back to TSA to get in the cockpit again. They are truly not worthy of any of the services that the TSA pilots provide. It is a great group of people that I really enjoyed working with and I am pretty sure prisoners get treated with more dignity and respect than we do/did. Anyway, Rant over.

I think the payroll deduction comment was about UAL's "non-rev" privs that cost 10 20 or 50 bucks + tax PER LEG....even for the employee. Basically you get charged to commute to work....it gets payroll deducted so you have no idea when its gonna come out.

from the MEC:

Fellow Pilots,

By now most of you are aware that Trans States Airlines did not prevail in securing additional flying under the UAL RFP despite having a low cost, competitive bid. Unfortunately, this means that all recall letters will be rescinded for our furloughed brethren. TSA President Rick Leach has posted a memo on the TSA OPS website explaining why TSA was unsuccessful with its bid. A TSA MEC Special Announcement has been emailed to all furloughed pilots informing them of the pending rescission. The MEC remains committed to the return of all furloughed pilots to active status and the overall success of Trans States Airlines.

This seems like a good time to reflect on what RFP’s really mean. While a successful bid would have been advantageous to TSA pilots, especially furloughed TSA pilots, we can’t ignore that much of this flying was originating from a fellow ALPA carrier. Our gain would have been at another carriers loss. Our furloughed pilots would return while another carrier would be furloughing. Hundreds of pilot’s careers would be restored while just as many would be recycled. This should highlight the fact that “OUR” flying is never truly “OURS”. This fact has been witnessed time and time again over the last decade. This should reinforce the work that the Fee For Departure Committee (FFDC) is doing to establish protocols and provisions that would allow pilots to go from one airline to another with seniority and longevity intact. In an ideal scenario, pilots would merely work within an entire airline system with the capability to voluntarily bid to vacancies at
other carriers maintaining both their seniority and longevity when the move from one airline to another. This would eliminate the endless whipsaw between pilots at competing carriers as well as eliminate the price wars that air carriers themselves engage in over RFP’s. Ultimately, it leads not only to greater stability for pilots but also the regional airlines themselves.

Some of you may be thinking…”Why would I want to allow a pilot from another airline to jump in our seniority list and knock me down a number?” Well, everything has a cost. The cost of having a truly stabilized career instead of constant up’s and down’s and recycles is to buy into an insurance policy. By purchasing this insurance policy you get to advance your career with a better quality of life, better pay likely, few scope concerns, built in furlough protection and a much more stabilized career. Obviously, these concepts are very new and are only in their infancy stages but one-the-less they are being developed by the FFDC in an effort to improve all our careers. Time will tell if theory can one day be put into practice. One thing is certain, these concepts will take years and maybe decades to see if they come to fruition. Until then we need to be our own best advocates by helping each other out in our time of need.