Dont take it out on me that you work for an airline with no respect for its pilots. You signed up for that one.

If you understood how different regionals stack up you would know that AWAC and XJT have very different contracts but very similar end results. Both companies have strong contracts, similar pay, and each has strong and weak points in the contract. We really are very similar when it comes to compensation and QOL. While you can throw pay rates against each other in a straight comparison it will do you little good when you look at the big picture.

CAL-XJT-CJC = bad. UAL-Mesa-XJT = not great but better.

As far as AWAC being asked to take a pay cut. I really think it was a management ploy for contract negotiations. "see we didnt get the bid because we are too expensive." It was between XJT and TSA in the end. TSA employees are not treated well.... so how did xjt win??? hmmmmm

If you really think Colgan pilots have it so great i would love to educate you on how realistically they are basically working in a sweat shop.

When do they find out their schedules for the next month so they can plan their 18 days off? haha
Vacation policies?
Retirement accounts?
can they trade trips easily and possibly on their own computer without crew scheduling?
punitive sick call policies?
general respect for their employees?
good hotels or are they in Motel 8's next to a burger kind and a truck stop?
prior to the union how did the company help out pilots who were violated?(CJC threw a couple guys under the bus)
street captains?
per diem on day trips?
trip quality?

your damn right there is some room for improvement. How can you compare an airline like that to any respectable airline? the kool aid must have been pretty good if your still defending that circus.

Talk to someone at a better regional and ask them those questions and remember how you were treated at colgan. If you can HONESTLY tell me that those colgan people are "enjoying" their time off as they wait in the food stamp or welfare line then i will gladly shutup. Most of the colgan guys (especially on here) are so clueless that they are stepping in their own drool thinking about q400's in IAH that they cant even comprehend how badly they are being treated.

ahhaha DME arc I dont know what Colgan your talking about but between my experience and the guys I talked to in Terminal C, Colgan is still Colgan...........

sniff!! sniff!! What is that smell???.... It smells like.... like a bailout.

Just curious. How many is "Many many many"? And you're saying that these folks are averaging 7 hours and 40-something minutes a day in a 31 day month? I'm talking their original line, and not premium pay or overrides for this that or the other.

It is Motel 6, but only in Del Rio.

One Motel 6 to many when your on the company dime.

Agreed the only way it would truly be better is if the flying went to mainline.

As for the XJT/AWAC ****ing contest I'm glad XJT got this. AWAC has always been arrogant IMO when it comes to UA flying. They need to get over the divorce and apprciate the US flying they bought. Other stuff I could add but I'll leave it at this.

Can you tell the difference between management and pilots, as far as I know AWAC pilots have no problems with XJT getting this United flying and since i am an AWAC pilot where are you getting your information? And in regards to the US flying again i believe that was management that gave the loan not the pilots..... Out of curiosity what do you have against AWAC since you had "other stuff" you could have added but didn't.... I am proud to be an AWAC pilot and am glad our pilot group/union did not play management games.....and although I would have liked AWAC to get the UAL flying I am happy XJT got it because they are a reputable pilot group.

I don't have much time here, as I'm waiting in the food stamp/welfare line, because I don't know if I have to work tomorrow or not, and there's no welfare office near any of the Lucky Strike Motel/Truck stops they put us up in for our 9 hour overnights. I have to trade trips via telegraph, or maybe smoke signals, so I won't be able to move anything around to get this food stamp thing taken care of. I'd call in sick, but they'll hobble my ankles if I do. But, I do have time to say this:

Go do your job, and quit worrying about us. We're fine.

Can you find a better hotel in Del Rio? :D

Seriously, though, we stay in normal hotels. The days of staying in dives died years ago. Still some good stories though.

Get your facts straight before you spread more rumors. CHQ has in no way undercut XJT. I make the EXACT same amount of money as a CA at CHQ as I would at XJT. I have great benefits including good insurance and the best travel benefits of any airline in the system. My QOL as a JUNIOR CA commuting is not nearly as bad as I've heard from others at similar regionals. Let's not forget something VERY important. CHQ has put out better numbers (completion and on-time) than XJT every quarter since beginning the Continental Express flying. I have had NO maintenance cancellations and can only recall one delay of 15 minutes in over a year. There is no junior manning and we even get Christmas bonuses. Stop the hating!

you say you have the best travel benefits in the system. do you get travel benefits on all the airlines that republic serves, or just chq or just the specific mainline airline that you are serving? always wanted to know.

Your kidding right? Lets see, we take a pay cut, get screwed over and then we should be happy about it? Trust us, we don't like UAL. However,with a move to get that flying it would mean that MOST of our guys wouldn't have to commute. When your mission statement still is "To serve United needs", yeah it'd be nice to get some of the flying back. As far as XJT getting the flying, good for them.

And what is your beef with AWAC? I'd love to know.

CHQ actually did undercut XJT. You need to get your facts staight son. You do not make more than a xjt CA. And your travel benefits are terrible in comparison. Your entire post lends no merrit. CHQ will be out of Houston in March, and March can't come soon enough. Also your entire operation was a laughing stock and still is. You may now have better numbers out of Houston because your company operates like five planes out of there.

I don't even think you realize what your missing out on. If you even think you have it marginally close to an industry leading contract your are crazy.

Let me spell out a few things for you.....
MX Cancellation pay
WX Cancellation pay
Min day pay
Duty Rigs
401K Matching up to 5%
Primary Vacation Trip touching....I didn't work the entire month f June and I'm not very senior at all
Day rooms with sits over 4:30...love seeing you guys chilling out in the crew rooms in LGA and PHL when were heading to the hotel during snow storms.
Primary pay for picking up open time....Time and a half for any flying on a day off
Primary pay for junior mans..yes we can be junior manned but we are payed accordingly.

BTW this is Air Wisconsin's contract strong points. Which is supposedly similar to ExpressJet's.

All of these things alone add up to several thousand dollars above my hourly pay rate every year. So go throw yours out there......Whatcha got?

Comparable pay rates? Under ExpressJet's normal contract CHQ pay isn't even close! In fact it averages two to three dollars less per hour. Your company wide F/O pay is RIDICULOUS! I make more money every year flying my little barbie jet than your F/O's on the 190! Your company is a joke! I wish your pilots would get a spine and do something for yourselves....you think you got it? You don't!

Our pilots suffer. They suffer for having integrity! You sit blindly in your ivory tower while your management laughs all the way to the bank.

Depends of where you are based. You get all mainline partner's per the base you are flying out of. In some cases you may have benefits on 3-5 airlines. The downside is there all charging now except for Delta and UsAirways domestic. United just charged me and my wife $985 for a LAX-SYD R/T. Still worth it, but when my friend BUYS a ticket for $880 there is a big problem. Airlines are now trying to make a profit (sometimes large) on employee travel.

I honestly don't see anything in there that is not there at xjet. Although we do not get time and a half for picking up open time, But we do get 6 percent matching plus a b fund.

Good, I'm glad, that's the min I think all contracts should be at. And our contract is concessionary (Also, remember, our pay rates are a bit higher, and they would be higher still if we didn't get the ol shaft from UAL the last time). Everyone should aim for Xjet/AWAC has a STARTING point for a contract. End of story.

I never said I made more, just the same. I agree 100% that the IAH CRJ operation is nothing to write home about, but CRJ's were the only crappy plane available at the time to fly for CoEx. The operation is by no way "laughing stock!" It seems nearly every time I'm in CLE the gate, ramp, and supervisor's prefer our operation to XJT. I even got to go to the fancy C terminal and the ramper immediately commented how much easier and faster it was to work our flights. It is a FACT and has been since we started flying for Continental that our number's beat any CoEx carrier, sometimes by 5 to 10 percentage points. My post if factual. Yours is out of complete jealousy and ignorance.

And if CHQ did in fact, in your opinion, undercut XJT then you can guarantee that XJT undercut AWE. There is no doubt that XJT offered the lowest bid to do this flying. When XJT first was awarded the summer UAL flying, our CEO (Republic) specifically stated that there would be NO way we could offer such a low price and it seemed XJT would be willing to loose money to secure new flying. Why, if we are such a low-ball company if your eyes, would we turn down flying for such a cheap price? Ohh yeah, this came during the same time as the concessions at XJT, something that DID NOT happen at CHQ. Instead Continental specifically stated to CHQ that we were not the lowest bidder for the new CoEx flying, but our operational stats made up for the higher cost. Will there be another round of concessions at XJT for this new flying, there won't be at CHQ and we are bringing back furlough's at F9 and Republic starting now.

you lot are unbelievable....

As I understand it. XJT has a bunch of aircraft sitting around doing nothing. Aircraft that are costing them money. So of course they would be cheaper than AWAC; all XJT has to do is charge UAL costs +1% and they have gone from making a loss on those aircraft to making a profit.

AWAC has to find aircraft, pay for any MX that would be required to put them into sevice and then cover the 3 Amigo's profit margin! It doesn't take a freaking genius to work out we (AWAC) would cost more!

I'm glad that XJT got the flying. The idea that they undercut anybody, much less AWAC is laughable.

It's funny I used to see CHQ guys in IAH calling ops for there out times while they were still boarding...

CHQ undercut people? No way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just go ahead and ask the Midwest guys..............

Get over your self meatballs. If you can really come on here and think that your stuff doesn't stink, you're truly eating some major jetlink kool-aid. The ego you have is rather annoying. Good think you are in the extreme minority at xjt. :cool:

nah, the majority of XJT guys feel the same way about CHQ I believe..............

also you don't "eat kool-aid", you drink it..............

I'm pretty sure the statement about better numbers in incorrect, especially as it pertains to the "SINCE THE BEGINNING".

How many departures a day does CHQ do vs. XJT out of IAH?

There have been multiple months where CHQ had more MX cancellations than XJT has, and thats with CHQ smaller fleet size.

Those are just facts, sorry.

As far as the AWAC guys go. We all know that you can't believe everything you hear/read, and that anything is possible. I wouldn't count yourselves out of a piece of this RFP award quite yet.

Never saw him post this, but if he did, here is what has happened in the last couple of years:
-Mainline 737 flying in EWR decreases
-XJT flying decreases
-Colgan gets more Q400s (74 seat aircraft) out of EWR

Not throwing stones at Colgan, but why is this guy mad at XJT and not Colgan?

He used to fly for Colgan and makes biased comments based on emotion rather than facts.

Well, individuals are entitled to their own opinions. We haven't lost that in America just yet; so there may be some agents that feel the way you say. However, if this is true, they are saying the same thing to us. All I ever hear when I go to a station where CHQ operates is how much the crew wishes XJT served it exclusively. Especially in CMH. They really hate CHQ there for some reason. What's my point? What people say doesn't mean crap. They talk out of both sides of their mouth, and when it is all said and done, we are both contractors to momma CAL, PERIOD!

We were scheduled out last the other morning, but left before the earlier CAL or CHQ departure. We were rotating on 10R as CHQ started their push. All this being said, I am not so much into comparing my size to yours. However, as DOJET correctly indicated, we get a month by month update of performance metrics for all COEX carriers. Typically, you will see less MX or Flt ops delay/cancellations than XJT (not always, but typically); however if you look at the pure volume of flights that XJT operates on behalf of CAL, the percentages are very clear that XJT has superior performance metrics. When you factor in that we operate in and out of EWR and some of our Flt ops issues are caused by flt time/duty time issues associated with major EWR delays, that just indicates that numbers are actually a little better than indicated. We, here at XJT, take a lot of pride in our ability to maintain this performance. Rest assured, atleast this time, the pilots of XJT did not take a concession to win UAL flying. Hell, we had to take a concession just to try and hold onto what we had last year. A pathetic indication of where our industry has been allowed to go.

Regardless of all of this, I still say that the guys who are flying those Midwest planes make me sad. Karma is hell and will certainly probably show up on their doorstep someday. Watch the ALPA video about the final Midwest flight just to get a sip of the lives that were impacted by what has happened there. Shortsighted and naive is the best description I can think up for those pilots that now fly the "pretend" Midwest Airlines.

So if the tables were turned and XJT had bought Midwest, you and your entire pilot group would have not flown the routes? An arbitrator ruled that the Midwest pilot group did not have rights to fly the E-190's once the 717's were off property. Midwest management sold out their entire pilot group, yet you place the blame on the pilots of RAH? United just retired their last 737 and lots of crews are out of jobs and yet XJT is adding UAL flying. This decision was made by United management just the EXACT SAME as a decision was made by Midwest management to sell off the company and its crews. I guess if karma is going to be an issue, you better hope United doesn't hire again in the future.

I have seen the Midwest video and it is sad for sure. I hope and pray for the best for all the crews and employees and Midex. I hope we can get them on property ASAP! They did nothing wrong, yet management has sold them out after all they gave to make Midwest such a great company.

Just like you said, what people say doesn't mean crap. I am seeing DOT numbers that indicate that we beat XJT in performance system wide, yet you see completely different numbers from your company. I guess we'll just have to call it even. I think the reliability at XJT is great compared with most regionals, but CHQ is also very, very good. Again, I have had NO cancellations caused by MX since operating the CoEx flights, nor do I hardly ever here about one (except for the damn CRJ's)! I think Continental prides themselves on having good regional partners and is willing to pay a bit more to achieve this. I have had nothing but positive feedback from Continental since we started flying in Cleveland.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ookourjobs.jpg

Really, people?

That attrition you're referring to - is that the same attrition that's seen me move up a whole 30 numbers since this time last year?

I'd love to see those numbers. Do you have a link? I can't seem to find them. All I can find is the DOT's Bureau of Transportation Statistics, and it appears Republic as a whole isn't represented on the site.

If you can come up with numbers, great. But if not, realize that using your own experiences (such as "I haven't seen a MX cancellation..." or "gate agents have been saying...") aren't representative of the entire operation as a whole. Numbers are what count, and since I've listened to the regular Flight Ops update voicemail that XJT puts out, the "other Continental Express carrier" mentioned has routinely been behind XJT in terms of completion.

Im an AWAC pilot... dont think that any wisky pilot out there has anything against XJT. We all were glad to see that you got the flying and are glad that you will have room for advancement and get some of your pilots off the street. Again congrats for securing some flying!

I found some numbers to start with. I'm sorry but I can only find year end 08' results as of right now. I will look for Q1 and Q2, but again I think the results are very similar.

CONTINENTAL EXPRESS ON-TIME PERFORMANCE ENDING 2008

A14
CHAUTAUQUA-87.5
EXPRESSJET-84

D0
CHAUTAUQUA-81.3
EXPRESSJET-73.8

I don't have a dog in this fight, but i hope to remind others to be objective. It has been said by smarter and funnier people than me that there are lies, damn lies and statistics. I'm not saying they can't show valid information but they aren't always completely representative of whats happening. E.G. Airlines without ACARS magically perform better than their rivals that can't fudge numbers.

Here is a list showing the on time performance from January to July of this year. Take from it what you will, just keep in mind that this ranking depicts Mesa as being on par with ExpressJet.

Airline On-Time Arrival Pct Jan-July 2009

Carrier On-Time Arrival Pct.

1. Hawaiian 91.71

2. Southwest 83.08

3. Pinnacle 83.07

4. SkyWest 82.45

5. Alaska 80.22

6. Northwest 79.61

7. US Airways 79.51

8. United 79.15

9. ExpressJet 78.26

10. Mesa 78.02

11. Continental 77.67

12. Delta 77.00

13. Frontier 76.94

14. American Eagle 76.65

15. AirTran 75.77

16. JetBlue 75.57

17. American 75.36

18. Atlantic Southeast 69.81

19. Comair 66.31

All Airlines 78.69

Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistic

Ok first of all, if you are just talking about continental ops, XJT operates over 200 aircraft for CAL and also included in and out of EWR! CHQ operates what, 45? All they are all in and out of CLE and IAH. Are you kidding me? The worst airline on planet earth should be able to get over a 90% on time percentage out of these airports. You can't compare over 200 aircraft flying through EWR with 45 aircraft flying through CLE and IAH. The fact that XJT is that close to you guys even with EWR pretty much tells the story. Nice try though buddy!

Looks like XJT arrogance is back :p

Hey man not saying one is better than the other, just saw the facts and had to comment. I think they both do a good job being on time. Its just hard to use DOT on time stats to support an argument when you operate through hubs like EWR, ORD, ect. Speaking for EWR, every flight after 12pm is going to be delayed at least 30 mins automatically. Having a 75% + on time arrival rate even with that is pretty darn good I'd say. Obviously the other 25% is mainly all the EWR flights.

I totally agree bud. Often its not what's being said, but how you're saying it that has given XJT dudes a little bit of a reputation. Then again I fly for SKW, so I suppose it may be the pot calling the kettle black ;) Safe flying amigo

No they are actually getting a pay increase in december of 3% which I believe makes XJT more labor cost prohibitive. While I applaude the Air Whiskey guys stance, I believe the bigger issue what to do with pilots affected by this transfer of flying.
Will the MEC stand up and hire those pilots from MESA and offer Longevity?
Will the ARW MEC stand up and offer pilots at PSA/Piedmont longevity at their airline.

Short of any actually doing something that helps the rest of the North American Regionals getting stability amongst their ranks, it will continue to toss Media emails around like they are actually doing something.

This is the exact reason for establishing a single longevity list ASAP.
You want to have a permanent upgrade, add stability to your career.