RAH buys up 80 C-Series
02-25-2010 | 06:18 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Hi!
As someone else pointed out, TSA ordered MRJs, NOT Bombardier Cs. The MRJs are smaller. TSA has NO BRANDED FLYING (unlike Republic)...
There is a problem when we say "Don't call it an RJ...". That is how we got into this mess. We excluded certain planes because they were too small, weren't jets, etc., etc. If we had insisted that our pilots (whoever "our" was) fly all of our passengers, we would have had 19 seaters at UAL, and we would not have any regional airlines.
It seems that Code Shares are now being used to do the same thing as Regional Feed has been doing. The Airline Managers have been able to weasel around scope in this fashion. There are, of course, technical differences, but it essentially letting your passengers fly on other carriers, some of whom have smaller planes and/or smaller payrates, which threatens your jobs.
NWA was planning on buying the "C". I hope DAL does, to replace it's DC-9s and/or Airbuses or 737s. It is a very nice plane, with FANTASTIC engines (of course, we will see how it REALLY performs when it is placed in service). Airbus and Boeing are both looking at these P&W GTFs to re-engine their smaller planes.
If you study the MWA/AirTran/TPG/NWA threads, I believe that you will come to the conclusion that, basically, DAL bought MWA, and cooperated with Republic in its dismantling. I think that DAL has no problem with Republic "competing" against it and flying feed/code-share for them at the same time.
I hope the MWA/F9/Lynx guys get back in the cockpit ASAP!
cliff
NBO
As someone else pointed out, TSA ordered MRJs, NOT Bombardier Cs. The MRJs are smaller. TSA has NO BRANDED FLYING (unlike Republic)...
There is a problem when we say "Don't call it an RJ...". That is how we got into this mess. We excluded certain planes because they were too small, weren't jets, etc., etc. If we had insisted that our pilots (whoever "our" was) fly all of our passengers, we would have had 19 seaters at UAL, and we would not have any regional airlines.
It seems that Code Shares are now being used to do the same thing as Regional Feed has been doing. The Airline Managers have been able to weasel around scope in this fashion. There are, of course, technical differences, but it essentially letting your passengers fly on other carriers, some of whom have smaller planes and/or smaller payrates, which threatens your jobs.
NWA was planning on buying the "C". I hope DAL does, to replace it's DC-9s and/or Airbuses or 737s. It is a very nice plane, with FANTASTIC engines (of course, we will see how it REALLY performs when it is placed in service). Airbus and Boeing are both looking at these P&W GTFs to re-engine their smaller planes.
If you study the MWA/AirTran/TPG/NWA threads, I believe that you will come to the conclusion that, basically, DAL bought MWA, and cooperated with Republic in its dismantling. I think that DAL has no problem with Republic "competing" against it and flying feed/code-share for them at the same time.
I hope the MWA/F9/Lynx guys get back in the cockpit ASAP!
cliff
NBO
Why would you bet that? These will be flying on the branded side of the house, they will seat slightly more than a 319, and F9 has proved that our pay rates and contract language produces extremely competitive CASM.
Everyone would have preferred an Airbus order, but now we have five years to work on an acceptable pay rate. Our LOA actually included the Cseries, nice job again FAPA, and an order away from the Airbus is also why our CBA required a MSL.
Not the best news ever, but also not the worst.
Everyone would have preferred an Airbus order, but now we have five years to work on an acceptable pay rate. Our LOA actually included the Cseries, nice job again FAPA, and an order away from the Airbus is also why our CBA required a MSL.
Not the best news ever, but also not the worst.
2015...
BB returns the Frontier A3xx's, no airplanes, furloughs the crews, replaces them with RAH pilots as the new planes arrive...JUST like YX.
For those who think there will be one list by that time, ask the Airways folks how that's going.
02-25-2010 | 06:55 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,963
Likes: 0
From: SkyWest Capt.
Just a question/hypothetical scenario. We all know that SKW has a huge amount of money in the bank, for a "regional". Like I mentioned prior, BB was able to capitalize on a bit of a unique situation. Acquire/take over 2 carriers (routes/aircraft/reservation systems/ground support/staffing, etc) that were in financial straights. One much more so than the other. And like I mentioned, he got 2 turnkey operations in the process to help expedite the process of building the Republic brand. Albeit under multiple paint jobs and different companies.
I seriously don't see TSA/HK being able to do this. But even with SKW's strong financials, who are they going to merge with/acquire to be able to pull of what BB did?
I seriously don't see TSA/HK being able to do this. But even with SKW's strong financials, who are they going to merge with/acquire to be able to pull of what BB did?
To be clear I am not in support of this model and I want Mainline Pilots to fight it to the hill. All pilots should join in their support as mainline pilots fight to salvage our futures.
02-25-2010 | 08:24 PM
#103
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: CRJ FO
Once upon an Bankruptcy...
Perhaps...until the next round of major airline bankruptcies occurs. It is a sad but true fact that mainline management has used the bankruptcy process to achieve contractual concessions that could not be achieved in normal contractual negotiations. The instances are virtually too numerous to list, but a partial list includes the elimination of pensions, sharp reduction in pay and work rules, increase in the number of hours worked and days away from home...the list goes on and on. The trend towards re-writing airline contracts via a bankruptcy court is becoming the prime M.O. of airline management. Only an ostrich with its head in the sand would think mainline management wouldn't at least attempt to re-write scope language in the next round of bankruptcies. They did it with pensions, they did it with pay and work rules, and it is only a matter of time before they do it to scope.
02-25-2010 | 08:34 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
From: B-73N FO
Spoken like a true communist there Comrade. I'll come out and say it since no one else has the cajones to say what they are thinking. I care more about my personal outcome than I do about the "groups" outcome. My outcome puts food on my table.
I love that you feel that the mainline pilots that sold out every generation of pilots after them are entitled to so much more than everyone else. Would you accept a job at a mainline at the expense of a regional pilot? Is the regional pilot less of a human, with less of a need, with a family that doesn't need to eat as much as yours does? Frankly, I agree with Sharky 100%. I hope that Bedford's little experiment works great. I hope that it leads to years of employment for me. I understand that many of you wish the opposite, and the great thing about this country is that you are free to disagree. What I don't accept and will not tolerate is the attitude that I should give up what is mine just to make you feel better. The payrates at RAH were industry standard when the contract was signed...it is being re-negotiated as we speak and I know that it will take vast improvements before I check the yes mark on a new TA. But my telling you that is a waste of time becasue frankly the RAH contract is the business of RAH pilots (yes, including all of our new found co-workers)...it is not the business of everyone else.
Please, all I'm asking is that you go out and do what is best for you...work hard, try to be sucessful, and don't you dare try to keep me from doing the same.
"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." -- John Galt
02-25-2010 | 08:35 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,585
Likes: 328
Perhaps...until the next round of major airline bankruptcies occurs. It is a sad but true fact that mainline management has used the bankruptcy process to achieve contractual concessions that could not be achieved in normal contractual negotiations. The instances are virtually too numerous to list, but a partial list includes the elimination of pensions, sharp reduction in pay and work rules, increase in the number of hours worked and days away from home...the list goes on and on. The trend towards re-writing airline contracts via a bankruptcy court is becoming the prime M.O. of airline management. Only an ostrich with its head in the sand would think mainline management wouldn't at least attempt to re-write scope language in the next round of bankruptcies. They did it with pensions, they did it with pay and work rules, and it is only a matter of time before they do it to scope.
02-25-2010 | 08:51 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
Spoken like a true communist there Comrade. I'll come out and say it since no one else has the cajones to say what they are thinking. I care more about my personal outcome than I do about the "groups" outcome. My outcome puts food on my table.
I love that you feel that the mainline pilots that sold out every generation of pilots after them are entitled to so much more than everyone else. Would you accept a job at a mainline at the expense of a regional pilot? Is the regional pilot less of a human, with less of a need, with a family that doesn't need to eat as much as yours does? Frankly, I agree with Sharky 100%. I hope that Bedford's little experiment works great. I hope that it leads to years of employment for me. I understand that many of you wish the opposite, and the great thing about this country is that you are free to disagree. What I don't accept and will not tolerate is the attitude that I should give up what is mine just to make you feel better. The payrates at RAH were industry standard when the contract was signed...it is being re-negotiated as we speak and I know that it will take vast improvements before I check the yes mark on a new TA. But my telling you that is a waste of time becasue frankly the RAH contract is the business of RAH pilots (yes, including all of our new found co-workers)...it is not the business of everyone else.
Please, all I'm asking is that you go out and do what is best for you...work hard, try to be sucessful, and don't you dare try to keep me from doing the same.
"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." -- John Galt
I love that you feel that the mainline pilots that sold out every generation of pilots after them are entitled to so much more than everyone else. Would you accept a job at a mainline at the expense of a regional pilot? Is the regional pilot less of a human, with less of a need, with a family that doesn't need to eat as much as yours does? Frankly, I agree with Sharky 100%. I hope that Bedford's little experiment works great. I hope that it leads to years of employment for me. I understand that many of you wish the opposite, and the great thing about this country is that you are free to disagree. What I don't accept and will not tolerate is the attitude that I should give up what is mine just to make you feel better. The payrates at RAH were industry standard when the contract was signed...it is being re-negotiated as we speak and I know that it will take vast improvements before I check the yes mark on a new TA. But my telling you that is a waste of time becasue frankly the RAH contract is the business of RAH pilots (yes, including all of our new found co-workers)...it is not the business of everyone else.
Please, all I'm asking is that you go out and do what is best for you...work hard, try to be sucessful, and don't you dare try to keep me from doing the same.
"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." -- John Galt
02-25-2010 | 08:55 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Spoken like a true communist there Comrade. I'll come out and say it since no one else has the cajones to say what they are thinking. I care more about my personal outcome than I do about the "groups" outcome. My outcome puts food on my table.
I love that you feel that the mainline pilots that sold out every generation of pilots after them are entitled to so much more than everyone else. Would you accept a job at a mainline at the expense of a regional pilot? Is the regional pilot less of a human, with less of a need, with a family that doesn't need to eat as much as yours does? Frankly, I agree with Sharky 100%. I hope that Bedford's little experiment works great. I hope that it leads to years of employment for me. I understand that many of you wish the opposite, and the great thing about this country is that you are free to disagree. What I don't accept and will not tolerate is the attitude that I should give up what is mine just to make you feel better. The payrates at RAH were industry standard when the contract was signed...it is being re-negotiated as we speak and I know that it will take vast improvements before I check the yes mark on a new TA. But my telling you that is a waste of time becasue frankly the RAH contract is the business of RAH pilots (yes, including all of our new found co-workers)...it is not the business of everyone else.
Please, all I'm asking is that you go out and do what is best for you...work hard, try to be sucessful, and don't you dare try to keep me from doing the same.
"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." -- John Galt
I love that you feel that the mainline pilots that sold out every generation of pilots after them are entitled to so much more than everyone else. Would you accept a job at a mainline at the expense of a regional pilot? Is the regional pilot less of a human, with less of a need, with a family that doesn't need to eat as much as yours does? Frankly, I agree with Sharky 100%. I hope that Bedford's little experiment works great. I hope that it leads to years of employment for me. I understand that many of you wish the opposite, and the great thing about this country is that you are free to disagree. What I don't accept and will not tolerate is the attitude that I should give up what is mine just to make you feel better. The payrates at RAH were industry standard when the contract was signed...it is being re-negotiated as we speak and I know that it will take vast improvements before I check the yes mark on a new TA. But my telling you that is a waste of time becasue frankly the RAH contract is the business of RAH pilots (yes, including all of our new found co-workers)...it is not the business of everyone else.
Please, all I'm asking is that you go out and do what is best for you...work hard, try to be sucessful, and don't you dare try to keep me from doing the same.
"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." -- John Galt
02-25-2010 | 09:14 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 0
From: B737 CA
Spoken like a true communist there Comrade. I'll come out and say it since no one else has the cajones to say what they are thinking. I care more about my personal outcome than I do about the "groups" outcome. My outcome puts food on my table.
I love that you feel that the mainline pilots that sold out every generation of pilots after them are entitled to so much more than everyone else. Would you accept a job at a mainline at the expense of a regional pilot? Is the regional pilot less of a human, with less of a need, with a family that doesn't need to eat as much as yours does? Frankly, I agree with Sharky 100%. I hope that Bedford's little experiment works great. I hope that it leads to years of employment for me. I understand that many of you wish the opposite, and the great thing about this country is that you are free to disagree. What I don't accept and will not tolerate is the attitude that I should give up what is mine just to make you feel better. The payrates at RAH were industry standard when the contract was signed...it is being re-negotiated as we speak and I know that it will take vast improvements before I check the yes mark on a new TA. But my telling you that is a waste of time becasue frankly the RAH contract is the business of RAH pilots (yes, including all of our new found co-workers)...it is not the business of everyone else.
Please, all I'm asking is that you go out and do what is best for you...work hard, try to be sucessful, and don't you dare try to keep me from doing the same.
"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." -- John Galt
I love that you feel that the mainline pilots that sold out every generation of pilots after them are entitled to so much more than everyone else. Would you accept a job at a mainline at the expense of a regional pilot? Is the regional pilot less of a human, with less of a need, with a family that doesn't need to eat as much as yours does? Frankly, I agree with Sharky 100%. I hope that Bedford's little experiment works great. I hope that it leads to years of employment for me. I understand that many of you wish the opposite, and the great thing about this country is that you are free to disagree. What I don't accept and will not tolerate is the attitude that I should give up what is mine just to make you feel better. The payrates at RAH were industry standard when the contract was signed...it is being re-negotiated as we speak and I know that it will take vast improvements before I check the yes mark on a new TA. But my telling you that is a waste of time becasue frankly the RAH contract is the business of RAH pilots (yes, including all of our new found co-workers)...it is not the business of everyone else.
Please, all I'm asking is that you go out and do what is best for you...work hard, try to be sucessful, and don't you dare try to keep me from doing the same.
"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." -- John Galt
When I was 15.
Before I realized that respouting pseudo-philosophy written as mind-numbingly long-winded speeches sandwiched in between horribly written fiction doesn't really count for much in the original thought department.
02-25-2010 | 09:15 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Westair, BIZEX, Mesaba, ASA, AWAC, Horizon ALL flew jet equipment with greater than 50 seats prior to the BK's
Granted, some of them may have had restrictions, but the fact remains.
02-25-2010 | 10:17 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: ERJ-170
Man that's awesome. Rape, pillage, and plunder to get YOURS. that's fine if you feel that way, but I don't want you on my team when we head to battle. You just sound an aweful lot like an airline CEO. I wish that others actions didn't affect us, but the truth is, we are all connected somewhat. Like it or not. If you don't believe that, look no further than 3407 and the impact it's having on all of us now.
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