Thanks! I am!

Sure beats sitting around in retirement watching the grass grow. I don't need the money but I do need the sense of still being in the game.

For me that's teaching the 170. And interacting with goal-oriented and positive and forward thinking young people.

SH...you remind me of the passed over and p1ssed off guys who would hang around the O'Club bar looking for any Lieutenant who would stand still long enough for the jerks to trot out their long lists of imagined injustices. They were losers, as is anyone who indicts the system for their own personal failures.

As for aviation not being like other professions, what do you mean by that? What other profession do you have experience with? Every profession has its winners and losers...you didn't make the grade in aviation. Others don't make it in law, medicine, whatever. The bell curve has two sides for a reason...and we all get to choose which side we end up on. Your poor decisions are no reason for others to turn away from aviation.

The fact that you chose unwisely is no blemish on professional pilots. For every one of you, there are the hundreds of successful and motivated pilots I've seen in the last two years of teaching regional aviation.

For those criticizing Sky High, I don't see him whining very often. Only when others ask about his past does he bring up his experiences. He says things that may shatter a little bit of what image is left of the airline pilot, and it seems some people don't have enough of a sense of self to be able to take that. Sorry for those weak-minded individuals.

What Sky H. consistently says is something that we all dang well better be able to agree on. Pilots are paid way, way to little. The cost of entry into this field, the responsibility, and sometimes demanding lifestyle are all reasons that we are compensated with pennies for every dollar we should earn. That being said, I still don't believe that airline pilots are super special. However, I can think of two that I have flown with and know of that now work at regionals that I don't believe should be flying for hire. I believe that a person with average hand-eye coordination and slightly above average intellect can work for any airline. Luckily, hiring and training processes weed out some who aren't fit for the job, but some still slip through the cracks. Like my acquintances.

Average hand-eye coordination and average intellect are all you need.

The gentleman that instructs in the 170 sim can tell you - he rather have a motivated student that will give 100% everyday than the genius is content to just get by...

-LAFF

I've seen it as a CFI as well. One summer, I was privy to teaching a vareity of young pilots. Some really didn't want to be there, but they excelled in school easily (they were doing it for the parents). But those with a strong desire to fly really stood out when it came to hand flying and applying knowledge/decision making in flight, even though they struggled with the studying.

The proof is in the cockpit. Those motivated, dedicated, and also smart individuals fill the major airlines. That's not to say that others couldn't be there as well. They just probably didn't have the motivation or desire. Everyone's priorities are different. Lets not criticize those that choose differently than us.

There's plenty of airline image left. It may not seem to you at the ripe old age of 25 to think so...but what the hell does a 25 year old know?

It may pain you to hear this...but not a lot. One of these days, much later than now, you'll figure this out.

Unless you have worked as an 'airline pilot'...and you bio says not...then you are talking out of that part of your body that you sit on. It's an unfortunate fact that we in the business consider ourselves underpaid and overworked. To those that do, I ask only that they take this complaint to their neighbor. The one not in the airline business. See how receptive he is to your complaints! "I only get 11 days off a month'!

How many do you think he gets?

Not to rain on your parade or p1ss in your messkit, but too much is made of this 'responsibility' that we carry. First of all, let's be absolutely clear on this. I have accepted this responsibility and neither you nor SH have. I was in command of a TWA plane descending into Dulles at 0930 in the morning of 9/11/2001. Neither of you were. All this talk of 'responsibility' is just self-aggrandizing talk. When I was instructing student Captains at TWA, my message was clear. Take care of yourself and everyone behind you will be OK. Responsibility ended at the cockpit door. Anything past that was just self-promotion.

Your sample size is exceedingly small and not worthy of comment.

You display an amazing lack of knowledge of the hiring system in a major airline. You may be right about some of the smaller non-major companies, but you are just blowing uneducated smoke when it comes to the majors.

One question. Have you ever applied with a major? How did you do?

Thanks
 

You remind me of a crusty old airline pilot who at 60 realised that he has burned every bridge with old friends and family. After a lifetime of short changing everything else in your life to stay in the saddle at 60 all you have left to keep your ego afloat is yelling at students.

I am sure that you are right. You don't need the money but at 60 the only thing you have left left is to stare at the walls. Now you have to justify all the sacrifices by attempting to validate them. Good luck. You might be able to remember how things were but you have no bearings on how they are now or where the future is going.

Guys like you assume that those who didn't make it had some sort of flaw. I maintain that it simply isn't true or at least my imperfection lies in my inability to drag my family through the muck to preserve a selfish long shot of a dream. Another imperfection is that I didn't have a well placed father at the military or airlines.


Lastly aviation is not a real career anymore. After such a huge investment in time, education and training to earn slightly more than a postman is ridiculous. For most flying isn't a real career anymore it is more of a working hobby at best. You keep telling them how great it is though !!

SkyHigh

All right, Shack. You ought to read my earlier posts in this thread before spouting off like you know me. My bio on this site doesn't say anything other than what I fly and my age. I'm not sure why being 25 gives me less of an ability to see the image of a pilot. If anything, I'd say you have grumpy-old-man syndrome. Pain me to hear what? Don't be ****ed because I don't believe that you are something special. Check your ego with somebody who cares.

I said that pilots, not 'airline pilots' as you are quoting me, are underpaid. You're the first to think you're paid to much. If that's the case then you are, and probably weren't worth FO wages. We all fly because we like it, but because we like our jobs doesn't mean we should do them for free. Are you in management at a regional?

Yes, pilots at the majors get more days off a month than those with a M-F job. They also work longer days, at night, on Christmas AND New Years. Would your neighbor trade that?

If you don't think commanding a multi-million dollar machine with hundreds of live inside carries more responsibility than just looking out for yourself then you are purely selfish in your line of thinking. Self-promotion? Aren't you the one drumming up the "image of the airline pilot"?

I know dozens of pilots at the regional and major level. Heck, I grew up with one that's been a captian at a major for 13 years now. If you had read my earlier posts you would have some prospective my viewpoint. I have a BS in aviation management and feel very educated in the hiring processes of airlines. By the way, I've never applied to any regional or major. Check that, I applied to Era after I sent a resume to Era after I got my commercial. I guess they qualify as a regional.

Please stop quoting me out of context. When I said I can think of two pilots I had flown with, I was mentioning only the two that I felt weren't adequate enough to be flying for hire. I've flown with many.

I thought I made my point when Sky Bolt didn't respond to my response to his bashing me.

That's your problem, SH. You don't have a clue.

What made you think that my friends and I have 'burned bridges'? Or 'shortchanged everything"? Or for that matter, 'yell at students'?

Is this an argument or a tirade? Check out your local shrink. This is known as 'projection'.

Depends on what you mean by 'not make it'...but you are correct. People who don't make it do have a flaw. In my end of the business, it's usually a lack of experience coupled with an inability to meet standards in 8 sim periods. Most do. Some don't. Attitude is not normally an issue. Not having the basic skills is.

Nor did I. That canard has been overworked to death.

Of course it is! What a stupid thing to say. Here's the deal...go to any major airport. Walk up to any airline pilot and tell him (or her) that. Stand by for a @ss-whuppin'.

What hubris! Do you realize how asinine you sound?

"For most"? How is it that you feel that you can speak for 'most' of us? Are you saying that you have canvassed the community and this is what you have found? Or is this just more of your 'misery loves company' shtick that gets you through the day?

I won't tell them 'how great it is'...you are wrong on that score. I don't deal in superlatives. I try to boil this business down to the basics. Maybe you are too...but IMO, you are excessively off the mark. You confuse your own angst with the hopes of others.

Bad mistake...and bad advice for the young folks reading these exchanges.

Its my sincere wish to be a CFI once my military commitment is over and experience what you describe first hand. I consider myself an excellent student (at all things not just aviation) and would love to teach like minded / motivated young men / women some day. I can see myself doing just that in 8+ years. Until then I'm glad to be able to visit APC and fly my FS F-16.

-LAFF

Because, kid, you've only been around for 'x' number of sunrises. But don't feel bad. We all thought we knew everything when we were your age. That's why us old farts can say the things we do. Too many t-shirts.

No...I'm not. I don't work for a regional in any capacity. I'm employed by a international aviation training company.

Friend, the point here is that I have actually done this...and you haven't.

See the difference?

That being the case, won't you allow me a little more credibility on this than someone like yourself whose entire airline experience to date has been one of figuring out how the passenger seat reclines?

I actually have a very strong image of an 'airline pilot'...in this case, an airline Captain. I get paid for teaching these skills and traits.

That was funny! Thanks...I haven't had a really good laugh today, and that one did the trick.

Sorry. I wasn't trying to. Maybe if you would be a little more specific next time...