I understand
 

I left Horizon and took a risk for the benefit of my children. Regional Pilots don't really do all that well. I certainly could not have been able to let my wife stay at home and raise our children. To stay would have been to accept a lower middle class life. I didn't work several jobs in college and waste most of my youth to earn a carpenters wage.


SkyHigh

Had you remained at Horizon, you would not be making carpenter's wages, nor would you be working a carpenter's schedule or living a carpenter's life style..

But that's not the point.

What is the point is that you have excessively badmouthed an industry that treated you as equitably as it treated everyone else. You chose to leave. You weren't asked to leave. You and only you are responsible for that decision and its outcome.

Aspiring pilots come here for guidance. They don't come here to be indoctrinated into the ranks of the naysayers, doom-and-gloomers, and those with failed careers. You are the minority. Your opinion is a minority opinion. It has relevance but it is not the only voice in the house. Unfortunately, you have tried your best to make it so.

LAfrequentflyer, I have to call BS. To say that staying in a $20k/yr job with a wife and kids is a good idea is self serving at best. I grew up in a flying family, have made a living flying, and know of what I speak when I say that a flying career is a selfish, self serving lifestyle. Made at the sacrifice of others. SkyHigh absolutely did the right thing. Some of us just can't hack the 9-5 life of a real job, it's not for sissy's, but sometimes you just have to do what is right for your family. I honestly don't see how anyone with kids can feel good leaving their family for days at a time to go make subsistance wages so they can have fun playing with the big toys.

Skyhigh -

You're sort of entertaining to read, but you lost me in the last page or two, so I want to make sure I understand where you're coming from.

Your primary goal is to help young guys just starting out in aviation understand that they are getting ready to spend a lot of money on what is essentially a lottery ticket, if they expect to end up flying for the majors one day? Is that right? OK, I think I get that, even if your logic is a little dicked up.

Where I get lost is where the bitterness toward airline guys helps you make your point. The VFR flight comment a while back was pretty rich. Sounds like you think major airline guys squirt out of the womb with an IFR ticket, an attitude and a seniority number. But again, that makes your point how?

Just curious.

Then I'll wave the BS flag right back at you.

Self-serving and selfish in what respect? And how is staying in a flying job any different than staying in any other job?

Since you are promoting your background, what is it? If you think it is relevant, let's see what you have.

What sacrifice of others? Whom are you referring to?

What makes you think flying is not a 'real job'? Are you unaware that seniority is what many look forward to in order to bid a schedule that is '9 to 5'?

Subsistence wage? Are wages low when starting out? Yes. That is the case in most professions, particularly blue collar professions...and make no bones about it. An airline career is a blue collar job for most.

'SkyHigh did the right thing'? Yes, he did. And now he can live with the consequences. His basic premise is that his former life was not contributing to the bottom line. Perhaps his bottom line is unusually large, but had he stayed at Horizon, he would now be in a position that many in the regionals would envy.

As for 'playing with the toys'...that is an exceedingly immature point of view for a supposed professional to take. If that is how you see aviation, then I suggest you follow SH's lead and look for fulfillment elsewhere.

You can call BS - its your choice.

The facts are when my father immigrated to the US he knew only one thing - how to fly helicopters. The Indian Air Force taught him. He got his commercial helo / instrument ticket (its a long story and a good one, pm me and i'll give you my phone number. I like to tell it in person. It will make you feel good about aviation and pilots...) and went to work in the Gulf of Mexico for 18K a year. My mom had to work at Mc Donalds so we could get ahead by 150-200 dollars a month. My father no only worked his 7 days on but most of his 7 days off at 1.5x the pay to make a better life for his family in the US. My mom told my father the day we landed in America - get a flying job and make yourself happy - I'll take care of the kids and home. Would I have liked my father around more? Sure. Who wouldn't. However, he did what made him happy and what he wanted....

V/r,
LAFF

A few more things...My father also helped bring a union to his company - PHI and at the end helped raise the starting wage for a 206 Bell PIC to 45K+ on a 7 on 7 off schedule. His last 10+ years he flew at 80K+ a year base pay and continued to work the extra days to put money away for retirement. My mom enjoys a stress free life due to his hard work and sacrifice. I consider him a role model for the American work ethic. All he expected and wanted was an honest wage for an honest days work. Nothing more / less.

He closed his account at 22,795 hours PIC all accident / incedent free over a 38 year (14 AF, 24 PHI / commercail helos) career. Those hours included 190 PIC in Texans (the original 40s version) and a few in DC-3...I know because I had to put the final entry in his log book ( the last of 9 volumes) so I could make sure the correct number was published for his obit (sp?)....

-LAFF

Sir, Thanks...

-LAFF

Not minority
 

I disagree. I am not in the minority. Most who come to the table and learn the ugly truths fade away and rarely mention their aviation past again. Just today a fencing contractor showed up at my home to do a little repair work and he is a commercial pilot with a bachelors degree in the subject yet his wife and kids have never seen him at the controls of a plane. The world is full of the victims of this industry. They are too ashamed to visit a forum like this. Lately the military has been creating 11,000 new pilots each year. The civilian world is producing a lot more than that. In any case there are far more pilots that there are good jobs to be filled. My guess is ten to one. Just because they don't stand up does not mean that there are not a lot of disappointed people out there.

SkyHigh

Carpenter Pay
 

Check the charts for yourself. $52,000 less taxes isn't that much money. I don't have to look I know how my ex-coworkers are doing but for your benefit I did. Meth addicts in manual labor construction can earn 38K so long as they manage to show up at the job site most of the time. Had I stayed after 8 years my pay would be 52K. In my state public assistance is available for a family of four that earns less than 53K. You are probably correct about my equitable treatment but it is still far from adequate.

SkyHigh