This illustrates why whenever I respond to a checklist, I physically touch the item being called out and verify its position.

For flaps I always point to the flaps required on the performance, and then move to the lever to verify they agree.

The decision to abort was made several seconds after V1. Let's remember what V1 is. We're committed to fly after we have heard V1. The speed was 142 knots. The airplane would have flown just fine at flaps 8, flaps 20, or anything in between. The airplane would have flown just fine even though it was yelling 'config flaps' at the crew. The decision to abort so long past V1 sealed their fate.

With that being said, I think it could have happened to many of us. They have paid a huge price. Get them retrained and get them back in the cockpit. And let's all take 'sterile' more seriously. But most important I beleive is proper checklist discipline. I see too many people just read/or recite from memory the checklist, and say from memory the proper response, without actually verifying the checklist item.

Let us all learn from it.

It think it's more than checklist usage.

Part of CRM is effective communications which includes active listening. Both appeared to have missed something. The CA called for Flaps 20, but the FO set 8. For whatever reason, the word "Twenty" that entered his ear did not get processed correctly by the brain, and therefore the brain didn't tell the hand to more the switch a little more. The FO called that he had set Flaps 8, and the CA confirmed this. Neither processed what had been said vs what was supposed to have been said/done.

So here is my question: with the FAA all hot and bothered about runway incursions, why is this practice of completing so much "inside" work while the aircraft is moving an FAA-approved procedure?

All of this is done while the ac is moving. The FO is inside with the ACARS and setting the PFD. The CA has to look inside to set the bugs and look at the speed card (to verify the correct weight is selected). This is where the flap setting should have been caught, twice. Seems like some of this could have been completed before the aircraft came off the gate.

For those of you who think "oh it could happen to any one of us", your looking at this the wrong way and to be honest it is quite disturbing.

Look at the recent history of your Regional or Commuter accidents.

1. Buffalo, complete pilot error
2. Lexington, Pilot eror
3. Those two guys who took a CRJ too high and flamed both motors and every other word was "dude".
4. The ALPA poster boy who never came near an F-16 but claimed to fly them.

Im sure there's more but those come to mind. The level of Maturity between a Mainline cockpit and a Regional is astounding and Sulley is the perfect example. Calm, cool, get the Pax off.

As for me, when I see something like this over run, my first and last thought is "That will NEVER happen to me".

Just another reason to avoid RJ's until you guys decide to police yourselves. Your reputation is suffering.

Surf Hard,

Nada

Please...if you can't multi-task, ya don't belong in a cockpit. Why don't we take care of ALL checklists and ALL duties before we ever move the aircraft? Because it's silly and inefficient. And I don't know about y'all but my head doesn't think that slowly.

They screwed up; they aren't the first and won't be the last...we'll always find another creative way to kill ourselves. Just don't let yourself be that idiot.

I agree that pay can be a motivator, but I don't think it makes a professional. Take our military personnel for instance. Most (not all) are very well trained professionals and they don't get paid near what their civilian counterparts do. However, they still get the job done and they get it done to a level that most civilians wouldn't have the discipline to.

Essentially, what was said about pay and professionalism would mean that the Captains at the airlines and the most senior pilots are more of professionals than junior guys, or First Officers.

Over the past few years almost everything that has gone against us in this industry has been our faults. With respect to negative press. Imagine you are up for a promotion at a non-aviation related job and one of the sales reps that reports to you (whom you've been counting on) completely botches a fairly large account. Then you go to your boss and say that if you were paid more and if he gives you this promotion, you would be more serious about your job and you wouldn't have let your rep make the mistakes that he/she made. Do you think you are going to get a raise? All of the most recent accidents in our community have been mostly impart by pilots not being professional, being negligent and breaking sterile cockpit. That doesn't work for us when we are trying to raise the professionalism bar.

As far as the level of professionalism = the level of pay and taking your job more seriously, do senior Captains at the Majors never break sterile cockpit? Do they not let their bellies hang out of their shirts? Do they not unbutton that top button of their shirt? Do they not wear cowboy boots? Do they not eat in front of the passengers? Do they not bash their own companies on the shuttle going over to the airport while the traveling public takes the same ride?

And even better, do you think that the public doesn't notice when a Novice regional airline First Officer or Captain walks past a Delta Air Lines pilot and says "Hello" and he doesn't even got a nod back in return? Yeah, that whole mentoring thing that the FAA has been passing around isn't going to work with this.

I guess what I am trying to say is that pay can be a motivator, but it really has nothing to do with professionalism. The hurdles and checks that may be involved to reach a job with higher pay is what allows a person to hold a job that requires a certain level of professionalism. There are many, many doctors and nurses that are working for free in places like Haiti that are still professionals.

Great post, Nada...I agree completely.

I have always thought that this was a week area in the Checklist.
The captain has to look at the FMS and read out the flap setting.
The F/O just does it. So lets say he makes the mistake of going to flaps 8 instead of flaps 20. (like what happened).
There is no checking of the setting after the Captain calls for Flaps 20 Taxi check. It is never double checked with the FMS again. You only confirm that the flaps are actually where they are. 8 degrees green.....

Just like the media only reporting on one side of the big picture.

So there have been no problems at the Majors?

Nobody landed on a wrong taxiway last year?

None of the Majors where involved in runway incursions?

Nobody overflew their airport because they fell asleep on the flight deck?

You should feel lucky that ALPA goes to bat for you in a way that they don't for the Regionals.

Take Sully out of the picture and you have nothing. And let's not kid ourselves, the outcome of his story is more unlikely than you winning the PowerBall 5 times before you retire.

But, the best part is that the overrun material really did it's job. Charley West going off the end and the only thing hurt is a few ego's, a few scared folks and a little airplane damage. Thanks, Airport Manager, FAA, NTSB, and whatever industry folks saved these folks with this great application of modern tech. :)