"Call SE- I'm sure he would talk to you."
I plan on it, however I think this is a serious issue and he is our top guy and I think he should address everyone. Although I shouldn't have jumped the gun as this all came out today, but I would expect something from him soon.

"The frustrating part is the union is assuming (at least according to the last emails) that the company has any intention of negotiating or actually agreeing on a contract. This is an incorrect assumption. They will not agree to anything $ubstantive unless they are forced to. We should have immediately adopted a more aggressive attitude and set of tactics ... but instead we keep plodding along."--------exactly, but we will negotiate in good faith while we continue to get walked on and get no where.....that's ok boys fly it and grieve it later.. And while we're at it, there's another msg about premium pay this weekend. :eek:

What exactly would you suggest? It's easy to say "get aggressive," but what exactly does that mean? Seems to me that your MEC is doing the right thing now: working to resolve the problems with the failed TA through direct negotiations, and taking the remaining items to the Board for assistance. That is the quickest way to a release, which is your only real leverage.

TA1 should have never made it past the MEC. It was painfully inadequate. The MEC and NC should have been more agressive in getting released instead of wasting everyone's time with TA1... the company has 'won' on just about every front for 5 plus years. It's ridiculous and a slap in the face to the PCL line pilots.

Management will continue to drag their feet and offer 'just enough' to keep from being released. They will NOT agree to anything meaningful unless forced to do so. The MEC and Chair should have known this for years!

Maybe they did...
Are we going to hear anymore information from our union before the end of June? Is our mec chairman going to address the pilots? I think our negotiating team has done a better job of sending out information but come on, this while thing is ridiculous. If this isn't going to get completed, why waste anymore time- if so everyone should go back to the line since we are so short staffed.....

That's easy to say, but you have to keep in mind that you're dealing with the NMB, and you want them on your side, otherewise you'll never get released. If the TA had been voted down by the MEC, then you probably would have been "parked" by the NMB for 6 months. Sending it out for a vote was the right move. It placated the Board, and now you can go back and fix the problems. If the company won't play ball, then the NMB will be more on your side, and you're more likely to get the release that you need.

We aren't going to get a TA this year or the next!! Really people!! I'm through getting my hopes up about this whole thing. This company is such a joke and the pilot group is FAR from being unified; there are too many tools at PNCL!!:eek:

And how come we can't get releasd?!?!?!?! Spirit hasn't been in negotiations as long as we have!!!! If anyone really thinks this company honestly wants to "work with us" and give us a good deal:rolleyes:, they are living in fantasyland. IT IS GOING TO TAKE US GETTING RELEASED TO GET A FAIR TA!!!

Rant over...:D

As a captain here, I will not do anything malicious to delay a flight as some have suggested elsewhere. However, my personal on-time perfomance is fairly bad I'm sure due to flying the way the FAR's, books, and safety dictate. There are things we should be doing that aren't wrong to do. Such as study your FOM and find interesting tidbits of information that most of us do not follow in an effort to be on time. "By the book" operating is the professional and moral way to operate as a pilot...check out FOM 13-9, first paragraph-bottom section, that one sentance in chp 13 would send on time performance down 30%...I do not do anything maliciously, just simply try to do my best to fly safely, by the rules set forth from the FAA and company, and then on time performance enters my mind. #1.SAFETY, #2.COMPLIANCE, then ON-TIME. Some of us get those priorities all mixed up...if you fly correctly and professionally (ie. not wink and nod at ops specs and just "make it happen") some things take care of themselves. Chp 4-14 bottom section would knock out a lot of other guys operating illegally-ever take an antihistimine while operating with a cold? Zyrtec? medication Did you know you have to take anti-biotics for at least 48hrs before returning to work? Open the door and brief the 20% of flights that have no working headset for pushback. If it's broken, write it up regardless of what it is (spoilerons fault anyone?) or where it happens. Guys, just do it right and a lot of this will take care of itself.

Been gone from there for over nine years, so I certainly have no dog in this fight, but maybe someone can explain WHY the "alleged" impropriety with WG was hushed up so well and nothing disclosed to membership? I mean a member of the MEC was recalled in closed session and still nothing will be said about it?

Also, whatever became of the person who used union membership rolls to send slanderous emails? Were they ever disciplined?

Good point with the above post, however I don't know if anyone can truely answer your questions. There are plenty of rumors but nothing formally has been issued to the pilot group except they were looking into the email ordeal. We took a survey when the first TA failed and communication, or a lack there of, was a concern. The negotiators have been much better about negotiation updates but our chairman has been MIA. Reps will tell us to contact him or our local reps for info, but issues that you have brought up need to be addressed to the pilot group and not left for individual pilots calling a rep and spreading the word on the line where information always gets mixed up. The same is true in regards to the current negotiations.
The chairman needs to step up and communicate with the pilot group.

Given the magnitude of the individual (WG) and the allegation, it does seem that disclosure should be made.

As to the second: chickensh!t emails are sooo high school. Well, not when I was in HS...didn't have email then. But the need for outing and discipline remain.