Mesaba Flowthru bid opens on June 14
06-12-2010, 06:57 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: G550 Captain
Posts: 1,206
Mesaba Flowthru bid opens on June 14
Mesaba flowthru bid opens on June 14 and will be open for 10 days according to the joint DAL and Mesaba letter posted on Mesaba company website. The letter was signed by DAL CA and Mesaba CEO.
It would be interesting to see how many actually get to flowup in 2010.
It would be interesting to see how many actually get to flowup in 2010.
06-13-2010, 10:47 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: B767/757 CAPT
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by Lighteningspeed
Mesaba flowthru bid opens on June 14 and will be open for 10 days according to the joint DAL and Mesaba letter posted on Mesaba company website. The letter was signed by DAL CA and Mesaba CEO.
It would be interesting to see how many actually get to flowup in 2010.
It would be interesting to see how many actually get to flowup in 2010.
06-13-2010, 11:07 AM
#3
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DTW 717A
Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by saab340driver
9 per month pending any "hold-backs" equals approx. 45 pilots from now til the end of 2010.
06-16-2010, 08:55 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 176
You know I will be honest...
In thinking about the flow, I think more than 20 for all of 2010 is extremely optimistic. With the DAL furloughs and Poolies - I can't imagine that there will be many of our people going up to DAL. At least this year.
Now don't get me wrong while I am NOT a proponent of the flow, I want anybody who wants to go to DAL to be able to. I would also be lying if I didn't say I benefit from the flow because I think the number for me to stay a Captain is between 30 and 40 flows. More than that and I may get the 900 in MSP.
My age, background, and education prevent me from flowing. Plus I really am not that interested.
I know that a lot of people outside Mesaba think we are getting some kind of "Free Pass" with the flow. Maybe. But what most outsiders don't know is that DAL, DALPA, and Mesaba were the major players in the flow agreement. While the MEC helped with the language, the pilot group was never really part of the flow agreement. No matter what anyone says it was imposed on us.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have outside groups influence our hard fought labor agreement and I was very vocal about how I felt the pilot group should get to vote on the Flow. We didn't get that opportunity. So mainline gets furlough protection while we can get booted to the street or out of our position without the chance to vote no. Gets me mad thinking about it. I knew about seniority, long upgrade times, blended rates, commuting, and low pay. The flow wasn't a risk I signed up for.
Now for a flow, we have done pretty good. However at 9 a month it will take many years for the middle of the seniority list to get their chance. Funny part is Mesaba is going to be furloughing yet the company will not even discuss the option of increasing the number of flows. How can the company be afraid of flows under these circumstances? 9 flows a month yet furloughing 20...doesn't seem reasonable.
Anyway we have the flow. We are downsizing. And again we find ourselves the enemy of the free world for circumstances beyond most of our control.
In thinking about the flow, I think more than 20 for all of 2010 is extremely optimistic. With the DAL furloughs and Poolies - I can't imagine that there will be many of our people going up to DAL. At least this year.
Now don't get me wrong while I am NOT a proponent of the flow, I want anybody who wants to go to DAL to be able to. I would also be lying if I didn't say I benefit from the flow because I think the number for me to stay a Captain is between 30 and 40 flows. More than that and I may get the 900 in MSP.
My age, background, and education prevent me from flowing. Plus I really am not that interested.
I know that a lot of people outside Mesaba think we are getting some kind of "Free Pass" with the flow. Maybe. But what most outsiders don't know is that DAL, DALPA, and Mesaba were the major players in the flow agreement. While the MEC helped with the language, the pilot group was never really part of the flow agreement. No matter what anyone says it was imposed on us.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have outside groups influence our hard fought labor agreement and I was very vocal about how I felt the pilot group should get to vote on the Flow. We didn't get that opportunity. So mainline gets furlough protection while we can get booted to the street or out of our position without the chance to vote no. Gets me mad thinking about it. I knew about seniority, long upgrade times, blended rates, commuting, and low pay. The flow wasn't a risk I signed up for.
Now for a flow, we have done pretty good. However at 9 a month it will take many years for the middle of the seniority list to get their chance. Funny part is Mesaba is going to be furloughing yet the company will not even discuss the option of increasing the number of flows. How can the company be afraid of flows under these circumstances? 9 flows a month yet furloughing 20...doesn't seem reasonable.
Anyway we have the flow. We are downsizing. And again we find ourselves the enemy of the free world for circumstances beyond most of our control.
06-16-2010, 01:34 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: G550 Captain
Posts: 1,206
Originally Posted by xj200capt
You know I will be honest...
In thinking about the flow, I think more than 20 for all of 2010 is extremely optimistic. With the DAL furloughs and Poolies - I can't imagine that there will be many of our people going up to DAL. At least this year.
Now don't get me wrong while I am NOT a proponent of the flow, I want anybody who wants to go to DAL to be able to. I would also be lying if I didn't say I benefit from the flow because I think the number for me to stay a Captain is between 30 and 40 flows. More than that and I may get the 900 in MSP.
My age, background, and education prevent me from flowing. Plus I really am not that interested.
I know that a lot of people outside Mesaba think we are getting some kind of "Free Pass" with the flow. Maybe. But what most outsiders don't know is that DAL, DALPA, and Mesaba were the major players in the flow agreement. While the MEC helped with the language, the pilot group was never really part of the flow agreement. No matter what anyone says it was imposed on us.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have outside groups influence our hard fought labor agreement and I was very vocal about how I felt the pilot group should get to vote on the Flow. We didn't get that opportunity. So mainline gets furlough protection while we can get booted to the street or out of our position without the chance to vote no. Gets me mad thinking about it. I knew about seniority, long upgrade times, blended rates, commuting, and low pay. The flow wasn't a risk I signed up for.
Now for a flow, we have done pretty good. However at 9 a month it will take many years for the middle of the seniority list to get their chance. Funny part is Mesaba is going to be furloughing yet the company will not even discuss the option of increasing the number of flows. How can the company be afraid of flows under these circumstances? 9 flows a month yet furloughing 20...doesn't seem reasonable.
Anyway we have the flow. We are downsizing. And again we find ourselves the enemy of the free world for circumstances beyond most of our control.
In thinking about the flow, I think more than 20 for all of 2010 is extremely optimistic. With the DAL furloughs and Poolies - I can't imagine that there will be many of our people going up to DAL. At least this year.
Now don't get me wrong while I am NOT a proponent of the flow, I want anybody who wants to go to DAL to be able to. I would also be lying if I didn't say I benefit from the flow because I think the number for me to stay a Captain is between 30 and 40 flows. More than that and I may get the 900 in MSP.
My age, background, and education prevent me from flowing. Plus I really am not that interested.
I know that a lot of people outside Mesaba think we are getting some kind of "Free Pass" with the flow. Maybe. But what most outsiders don't know is that DAL, DALPA, and Mesaba were the major players in the flow agreement. While the MEC helped with the language, the pilot group was never really part of the flow agreement. No matter what anyone says it was imposed on us.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have outside groups influence our hard fought labor agreement and I was very vocal about how I felt the pilot group should get to vote on the Flow. We didn't get that opportunity. So mainline gets furlough protection while we can get booted to the street or out of our position without the chance to vote no. Gets me mad thinking about it. I knew about seniority, long upgrade times, blended rates, commuting, and low pay. The flow wasn't a risk I signed up for.
Now for a flow, we have done pretty good. However at 9 a month it will take many years for the middle of the seniority list to get their chance. Funny part is Mesaba is going to be furloughing yet the company will not even discuss the option of increasing the number of flows. How can the company be afraid of flows under these circumstances? 9 flows a month yet furloughing 20...doesn't seem reasonable.
Anyway we have the flow. We are downsizing. And again we find ourselves the enemy of the free world for circumstances beyond most of our control.
Every indications are that there are no more than 60 to 80 furlough bypass people returning. That leaves 225. Compass management wants to hold back 3 months for everyone which means DAL needs to fill spots for Aug, Sep, Oct, and Nov. Unless economy takes another dive, DAL will be hiring briskly in 2010 and possibly into 2011. I think a majority of Mesaba pilots below the seniority of 125 will bid yes to flowthru, except, people like you who, for one reason or another, has to stay at Mesaba.
It is irrelevant whether some pilot group dislikes flowthru or not. It's a DAL management decision to keep it or not. If they want to keep it around, it will stay no matter how many pilots complain against it or even if Mesaba management wants to terminate it. I see no valid business reason for DAL management to get rid of flowthru at this time, as long they are planning to hire. If the economy changes and if DAL stops hiring, then they may start to look at it again with a different outlook.
ALPA MEC Mark Nagel said there will be no negotiations to increase the number of flowthru per month. I don't know if that is due to Mesaba management or MSA ALPA or DAL management.
06-16-2010, 02:49 PM
#7
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Posts: 176
Originally Posted by Lighteningspeed
It will be more than 20 who will flow in 2010. DAL is planning to hire 50 to 80 per month until November. December will be for the backfills such as people who were held back. Even if some people are held back from Mesaba, the next group will fill available spots. Those held back will flow up in December.
Every indications are that there are no more than 60 to 80 furlough bypass people returning. That leaves 225. Compass management wants to hold back 3 months for everyone which means DAL needs to fill spots for Aug, Sep, Oct, and Nov. Unless economy takes another dive, DAL will be hiring briskly in 2010 and possibly into 2011. I think a majority of Mesaba pilots below the seniority of 125 will bid yes to flowthru, except, people like you who, for one reason or another, has to stay at Mesaba.
It is irrelevant whether some pilot group dislikes flowthru or not. It's a DAL management decision to keep it or not. If they want to keep it around, it will stay no matter how many pilots complain against it or even if Mesaba management wants to terminate it. I see no valid business reason for DAL management to get rid of flowthru at this time, as long they are planning to hire. If the economy changes and if DAL stops hiring, then they may start to look at it again with a different outlook.
ALPA MEC Mark Nagel said there will be no negotiations to increase the number of flowthru per month. I don't know if that is due to Mesaba management or MSA ALPA or DAL management.
Every indications are that there are no more than 60 to 80 furlough bypass people returning. That leaves 225. Compass management wants to hold back 3 months for everyone which means DAL needs to fill spots for Aug, Sep, Oct, and Nov. Unless economy takes another dive, DAL will be hiring briskly in 2010 and possibly into 2011. I think a majority of Mesaba pilots below the seniority of 125 will bid yes to flowthru, except, people like you who, for one reason or another, has to stay at Mesaba.
It is irrelevant whether some pilot group dislikes flowthru or not. It's a DAL management decision to keep it or not. If they want to keep it around, it will stay no matter how many pilots complain against it or even if Mesaba management wants to terminate it. I see no valid business reason for DAL management to get rid of flowthru at this time, as long they are planning to hire. If the economy changes and if DAL stops hiring, then they may start to look at it again with a different outlook.
ALPA MEC Mark Nagel said there will be no negotiations to increase the number of flowthru per month. I don't know if that is due to Mesaba management or MSA ALPA or DAL management.
06-20-2010, 04:36 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: CRJ -200
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by xj200capt
You know I will be honest...
In thinking about the flow, I think more than 20 for all of 2010 is extremely optimistic. With the DAL furloughs and Poolies - I can't imagine that there will be many of our people going up to DAL. At least this year.
In thinking about the flow, I think more than 20 for all of 2010 is extremely optimistic. With the DAL furloughs and Poolies - I can't imagine that there will be many of our people going up to DAL. At least this year.
06-20-2010, 05:26 PM
#10
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 330 FO
Posts: 584
Originally Posted by xj200capt
You know I will be honest...
In thinking about the flow, I think more than 20 for all of 2010 is extremely optimistic. With the DAL furloughs and Poolies - I can't imagine that there will be many of our people going up to DAL. At least this year.
Now don't get me wrong while I am NOT a proponent of the flow, I want anybody who wants to go to DAL to be able to. I would also be lying if I didn't say I benefit from the flow because I think the number for me to stay a Captain is between 30 and 40 flows. More than that and I may get the 900 in MSP.
My age, background, and education prevent me from flowing. Plus I really am not that interested.
I know that a lot of people outside Mesaba think we are getting some kind of "Free Pass" with the flow. Maybe. But what most outsiders don't know is that DAL, DALPA, and Mesaba were the major players in the flow agreement. While the MEC helped with the language, the pilot group was never really part of the flow agreement. No matter what anyone says it was imposed on us.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have outside groups influence our hard fought labor agreement and I was very vocal about how I felt the pilot group should get to vote on the Flow. We didn't get that opportunity. So mainline gets furlough protection while we can get booted to the street or out of our position without the chance to vote no. Gets me mad thinking about it. I knew about seniority, long upgrade times, blended rates, commuting, and low pay. The flow wasn't a risk I signed up for.
Now for a flow, we have done pretty good. However at 9 a month it will take many years for the middle of the seniority list to get their chance. Funny part is Mesaba is going to be furloughing yet the company will not even discuss the option of increasing the number of flows. How can the company be afraid of flows under these circumstances? 9 flows a month yet furloughing 20...doesn't seem reasonable.
Anyway we have the flow. We are downsizing. And again we find ourselves the enemy of the free world for circumstances beyond most of our control.
In thinking about the flow, I think more than 20 for all of 2010 is extremely optimistic. With the DAL furloughs and Poolies - I can't imagine that there will be many of our people going up to DAL. At least this year.
Now don't get me wrong while I am NOT a proponent of the flow, I want anybody who wants to go to DAL to be able to. I would also be lying if I didn't say I benefit from the flow because I think the number for me to stay a Captain is between 30 and 40 flows. More than that and I may get the 900 in MSP.
My age, background, and education prevent me from flowing. Plus I really am not that interested.
I know that a lot of people outside Mesaba think we are getting some kind of "Free Pass" with the flow. Maybe. But what most outsiders don't know is that DAL, DALPA, and Mesaba were the major players in the flow agreement. While the MEC helped with the language, the pilot group was never really part of the flow agreement. No matter what anyone says it was imposed on us.
I think it sets a bad precedent to have outside groups influence our hard fought labor agreement and I was very vocal about how I felt the pilot group should get to vote on the Flow. We didn't get that opportunity. So mainline gets furlough protection while we can get booted to the street or out of our position without the chance to vote no. Gets me mad thinking about it. I knew about seniority, long upgrade times, blended rates, commuting, and low pay. The flow wasn't a risk I signed up for.
Now for a flow, we have done pretty good. However at 9 a month it will take many years for the middle of the seniority list to get their chance. Funny part is Mesaba is going to be furloughing yet the company will not even discuss the option of increasing the number of flows. How can the company be afraid of flows under these circumstances? 9 flows a month yet furloughing 20...doesn't seem reasonable.
Anyway we have the flow. We are downsizing. And again we find ourselves the enemy of the free world for circumstances beyond most of our control.
But honestly, what do you think the outcome of such a vote would have been among your group.
Ok, Ok . you never know. But realistically, what do you think would've been the outcome? Would anything be different today?
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