Thanks for the history lesson. Have you been studying your 25th Anniversary timeline poster?

 

Just trying to add to the convo...any reason for the smarta** response?

 

I have no idea what you have flown and also have no idea how other jets act since the only jet I've flown is the 145. The 145 reverse makes a HUGE difference. You can even just pop the buckets and keep it at idle reverse and it will stop the plane. If this was a hydroplane incident then the reverse thrust would have got the plane below hydroplane speed faster and the brakes would have had more runway in order to try to get the plane stopped. They more than likely would've stopped on the runway if they had reverse as an option. If they did still manage to go off the end they would've been going slower and maybe not have gotten hurt. While having reverse may not have prevented them from going off the end it more than likely would've prevented the injuries.

 

Does Canada still have ungrooved runways? Nothing like a wet, ungrooved runway.

 

If you didn't pop the TRs or hit the brakes, the plane would eventually stop. I didn't say they were useless, and in the 145, they might make a difference. In the planes where I've had them, they only changed the ground roll by a few hundred feet --- yes, a few hundred feet. Sure, that could save your behind in a situation like this. Slats, flaps, and spoilers (not to mention brakes) were more important to the landing ground roll.

However, the point was, and still is, we have no idea what happened and the lack of TRs is premature at best.

 

I'm guessing that figure you're providing is for dry (possibly grooved) pavement. I'm also going to guess that when the stopping power of your brakes is near zero, as in a hydroplaning situation, the effects of TR's might be more significant than the "few hundred feet" your dry runway scenario suggests. I'm no aeronautical engineer, but I'm going to throw my hat into the "145 TR's make a huge difference" ring. Especially on slick surfaces.

 

As another pilot on here who has 1000+ hours on the EMB-145, put me on the list of those who think that this plane definitely would not have had an overrun if they had TRs installed.

Sure, maybe they floated or touched down fast, that'll all come out after an investigation, but, even if all that happened, they'd have stopped several hundred feet sooner with reverse. They really make a difference in the ERJ.

Why on earth would anyone order this machine without thrust reversers.

 

I know we have no idea exactly what happened today, but another TSA plane went off the end in YOW over 5 years ago. That plane also didn't have TR's...so there is a trend now. Since we don't know what happened today I'll share a story that happened to me in the past.

The best brakes the world wont do you a bit of good if the tire they are attached to is hydroplaning...

I have hydroplaned a 145 on a wet Canadian runway and taken 9500 ft to stop...lucky for me the runway was longer than that. We were on speed and touched down around the 500 ft markers due to wetness of runway. Touchdown speed in the 145 is in the 120-130ish area. It took us about 8000 ft to slow 40ish kts to below 90 kts. Once below 90 kts we stopped hydroplaning and finally got braking action. We got the plane stopped in about 1000-1500 ft at that time. I know if we had TRs that day we would have stopped in much less than 9500 ft. We would have slowed to below 90 kts in way way way less than 8000 ft since we would have had reverse thrust to slow us instead of just spiolers and drag and stopped hydroplaning much sooner. Like I said I'm not saying that this is what happened today. This is a story from my past which is leading me to beleive that TRs make a huge difference in a 145.

 

+1 one on EMJ TR's. This is my 12th jet (ughhh) and it stops better than anything I've flown. The TR's are so good that by the time the engines spool up you have to stow them because your already at taxi speed. If you honk on the brakes and use full TR's this thing stops on a dime.

Obviously I speak of dry runway....

 

LET'S GO WATERSKIING!

Glad to hear the crew is O.K.