Lynx Becoming Part of Republic

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08-20-2010 | 10:19 AM

#71

ToiletDuck

Che Guevara

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ColdWhiskey

In my opinion Lynx should be added to the Frontier certificate. It never made sense to me to have Lynx seperate from Frontier. Economies of scale (10 airplanes) should have precluded it in the first place. All of the duplicated functions (management, headquarters, dispatch, scheduling, maintenance, ect., ect. made it a losing proposition from the start (three times the startup cost than what was planned). Inside rumors report that Lynx IS the reason for the bankruptcy. Frontier could just as easily have added the Q400 to the Frontier certificate and made that aircraft the entry level position and negotiated a fair wage scale for that aircraft. The aircraft and it's markets made sense. A whole new airline for just 10 aircraft did not.

Fuel spiking over $100 a barrel and getting hit hard by the credit card processing have always been pointed at as the key issues.

08-20-2010 | 03:22 PM

#72

void

New Hire

Joined: Aug 2010

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

That's an interesting story...

When I worked at AWAC we'd seasonally do EYW-MCO in the CRJ-200; I don't remember if we were pax-restricted on that particular segment (I do remember we didn't have more than a few extra pounds of fuel to play around with) but I seem to recall it not really being a problem to take 40ish people to Orlando.

I know Eagle used to do RDU-AUS in a E135 which I've always heard was "hot rod"...I presume the E145 I saw Freedom flying EYW-MCO during that time was better on that particular route?

I believe Comair did EYW-MCO as well and would limit seats, but you would have to ask someone at Comair about that.

The E145 would actually be more restricted. EYW would always want to try for a 145 around spring break and was always told no because they would get less than 37 pax on a 145.

Eagle has done RDU-AUS and still does very long segments like LGA-XNA. CHQ has done them as well such as MCO-IND, CMH etc. The range of the aircraft wasn't the issue. It's the take off performance that is the problem. The 145 family can't deal with the 4800 ft runway.

08-21-2010 | 04:47 AM

#73

BoilerUP

Doing One Pilot's Job

Joined: Sep 2005

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I honestly would have figured the Embraers were less runway-happy than Canadairs...plus they're more fuel efficient so I suppose I thought their range on such a short segment wouldn't be an issue.

Guess not...

08-21-2010 | 05:05 AM

#74

Spoilers

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Aug 2008

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From: FO4LIFE

Quote:

Originally Posted by void

I believe Comair did EYW-MCO as well and would limit seats, but you would have to ask someone at Comair about that.

Yah, but we flew that route with the Brasilia back in the good 'ole days.

08-21-2010 | 06:36 AM

#75

ColdWhiskey

Line Holder

Joined: Jul 2009

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ToiletDuck

Fuel spiking over $100 a barrel and getting hit hard by the credit card processing have always been pointed at as the key issues.

Pointed to by Frontier management. That's easier that admitting that you totally mucked up the Lynx fiasco that cost you 90 million. Had the Q400 simply been put on the F9 certificate, the aircraft would have been generating revenue a full year sooner (at a minimum) with a fraction of the startup costs and a fraction of the operating costs.

The Lynx debacle left them cash poor. Had they had that cash they could have weathered the oil spike and would not have been vulnerable to the credit card processor.

08-21-2010 | 06:47 AM

#76

ToiletDuck

Che Guevara

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That's a lot of speculation. I think the credit card issue hit them to the tune of $150 million.

08-21-2010 | 07:30 AM

#77

Flyboyrw

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From: Lawn Chair

Exactly, Lynx was not the reason for Chap 11.

08-21-2010 | 07:56 AM

#78

Yabadaba

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From: Swing that gear

The Lynx certificate did cost a lot of money... the number you mentioned is 3 times higher than anything I have heard before (depends who is telling the story I guess). There are lots of reasons why F9 was low on cash at the time. Like, recession, competition, 318's, RAH contract, deliveries, fuel price, post Potter syndrome, Lynx certificate delays, and course First Data. These reasons combined caused the chapter 11... not just one of them.

08-21-2010 | 08:07 AM

#79

mwa1

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even if the creation of lynx contributed to bk the mgmt of Frontier made the decisions. no fault of the lynx subsidiary for the stupidity at Frontier.

08-21-2010 | 08:14 AM

#80

ColdWhiskey

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It's all spilt milk at this point. S.M. got the ship headed in the right direction. I still think he would have been better off to cut his loses with Lynx and just add the aircraft and employees to the F9 certificate. The aircraft and it's markets make a lot of sense. Having a whole separate airline with all of the duplicated functions and only 10 airplanes did not make sense. Don't get me wrong. I always have considered the Lynx employees to be top notch, and their DOT record speaks for that, but I have always also considered them to be Frontier employees. If B.B. does decide to keep them in some form, they deserve to be on the Frontier certificate.