The New Pinnacle...
 

Here is the end-all-be-all for Colgan/Mesaba/Pinnacle Forums. Please give your thoughts on negotiations, merger, certificate combination, fleet integration, future expansion, and hand-ankle grabbing...

The latest email seems to have a very aggresive time table. ta reached by nov 15, voting 1 month later, put into effect jan 1.

It has the potential to be very good or bad. A lot hinges on these contract talks. I have already flown with 2 mesaba guys so far and enjoyed both trips. I applaud the aggressive timeline from the union negotiating these simple parts are easy when they get to the pay work rules and scope sections we will really see how this will all turn out

Most pinnacle guys seem to be completely jaded when it comes to getting anything good from their management...mesaba guys seem to be a bit more optimistic about having negotiating capital in the fact that management can't really start consolidating management, ridding themselves of property and extra maintenance facilities, and General ops people until we have a contract and SLI...I hope that the money they could save starting sooner than later would be motivation for them to give us a little more pie....

Did anybody else read the latest e-mail, that said they were going for an industry leading contract? Now does that mean what we think it means or is it another one of those infamous interpretations.

My question on "industry leading contracts" will always be, "leading" in which direction, up or down?.

I predict Colgan will vote yes on any piece of toilet paper that comes out. Anything is an improvement for us, and far superior to what our first contract would be pre-merger. The good news is we are a relatively small group and will be subject to the consensus of Pinnacle and Mesaba.

Personally, I'm trying to remain positive and keep a "Glass Half Full" attitude. When the time comes, PLEASE remember to vote!

Stay Unified Ladies and Gents,
One Contract, One List, One Voice…

I couldn't disagree more. The above statement is embarassing and shouldn't be the belief of anyone involved in the negotiations. This may be the feeling of the aviation inexperienced and the industry naive in which Colgan employs many.

However, now is the perfect chance to improve all three groups qol and to settle isn't an option. The "something, just for the sake of anything" attitude plays into managements style of thinking and will bring a dangerous result. We've been beat down for so long, and have continually accepted far below industry satandard- now is our time. Get upset and expect the best. You're given a golden opportunity and you choose toilet paper? Typical Colgan pilot attitude...

While I don't respect or defend Colgan management, this attitude is the reason we remain at the bottom.

Good, get mad. We can use this kind of passion. And be sure to participate in spreading the word; we will not settle for a hasty attempt at a contract that leaves us wanting.

I agree 100% with you, alot of guys at Mesaba are worried that Colgan and 9E pilots will vote on any TA thats passed as long as it has the Mesaba contract plus some gains...I really hope thats not the case since our contract is still concessionary. I know you guys want a good contract, but don't sell out just to have something in place. One thing everyone needs to realize is we have a tremendous amount of leverage on this...

Here is the deal, we are nt voting on anything until we have a good ta. It's been made clear by our mecs that we are all on the same page and that they are going for a good contract so it's not colgan vs pinnacle vs mesaba it's all of us voting on whatever our collective negotiator can get us which I believe will be pretty good. I am excited for 2011

I agree. I too am very excited for 2011. We need to come together and settle for nothing less then the best for our pilot group. We deserve better! And if we come together as a unified group, we WILL succeed!

I also agree that there will be some folks here at Colgan that will settle/vote for "anything." I feel that we (Colgan, Mesaba, Pinnacle pilots alike) should discuss and educate our brothers and sisters that are not "in the know" so that they may make informative, rational decisions.

At the end of the day we MUST stay unified!

In the bonds…

can anyone tell me what reserve schedule is like? 4 on 3 off? or 5 on 2 off?..im gonna be commuting from fort lauderdale...just wondering what i'm getting myself into!..

thanks

Remember that the pilots don't even vote until all 3 MECs pass it. If the MECs don't pass it because it is junk, the pilots can't vote the junk in.

Checks and balances are in place

5 on 2 off 10 days off per month unless you are junior manned or extended, then it is less.

You mean like we did for ta1? :rolleyes:

so basically i'll have one day off..unless i can commute home on my 5th day after my last flight...but being junior..i doubt that'll happen for a while...

Not sure about your situation but typically (read 95% of the time) reserve will only be commutable on one end. There are times when it is not commutable on either end.

I have not sat on reserve here so there are others who are more versed in the reserve schedules than I am. Ask me in a few months, I will know MUCH more about our reserve.

Haha...

If you told me when I was hired at pinnacle that I would see 4th year fo pay I would have laughed at you. If you told me I would still be barely fighting off reserve I would have bet you a million bucks.... good thing I never met you in '07 I have enough debt as it is. Plan to be on reserve a long time, who knows, maybe you will have more luck than me.

This will get ugly before we ever have anything close to an industry leading contract. Either lower your expectations or tighten up your boot straps because I guarantee that without concessions from us (pilots) we won't see a damn thing for a long time. Us 9e guys have been on this train for quite a while so forgive us if we don't display such a sunny outlook on any negotiations. Some may see a deadline, I see 45 days of bs before we are all negotiating for seperate contracts again. They just bought 3 more months of relief from the nmb with this stunt.

This could very well happen and it is why I believe we are asking too much. If Mesaba wants a better contract than what they have so be it, but forcing Pinnacle and Colgan to join their fight is wrong.

So whats happening here is we are asking for a Mesaba+ contract... To Pinnacle and Colgan that is some serious gains. To go from no contract and extremely low wages to industry leading in 45 days... Really? Do you all REALLY think Pinnacle management is going to go for that. Pinnacle Inc has been in negotiations for years and havent reached anything even close to Mesabas current contract.

And if you think Pinnacle wont figure out a way to do what they want without merging the lists and having one contract your all in for a surprise... If we go in there asking for too much they will simply say "no" and find another way to do what they need to do and we will all stay in the current status quo having gained nothing. But hey if thats what yall think is best then so be it.

Having said that. I do have faith in the negotiating team, I think they will find a common ground with management and get us something that is better than what we currently have. Which is nothing...

I don't think mesabas contract is all that great, espicially when our managment team gets a hold of it and starts "interpreting" things. I hope we can achieve slightly better than industry average, which I think was always the goal at 9E. I'm just saying that isn't going to happen without the STFD group and things getting ugly.

Its better than what Pinnacle and Colgan have now...

Industry average or slightly better would be a great goal and something more realistic than the current goal of getting more than what Mesaba currently has.

edit: deleted

Management's dream pilot right there. Average as the goal? The average is nothing compared to what is should be! The race to the bottom continues...

I don't know about anyone else, but I am pulling up my bootstraps.

Doing nothing, Colgan will have the Mesaba contract. Management knew that when they bought Mesaba, so it is up to US to demand MORE!

It ain't gonna be easy, but I will NOT vote for anything less than the best of Pinnacle and Mesaba PLUS! Pinnacle CORP has the biggest turbo prop fleet (twice as many as Horizon). Not to ignore the jets, but props are THE MOST EFFICIENT at puddle jumping. There is NO other regional that has the prop capacity to replace us. For ONCE, we prop guys have the trump cards. We on the prop side can and must stand firm and force a GOOD contract... FOR ALL AIRCRAFT! If we don't, then I never want to hear any b!tching about work rules, pay, or scheduling: we hold our destiny.

Whatever,

Don't get me wrong I would love to have a great contract that would be Mesaba+ but I would rather have something than nothing. And I think asking for Mesaba+ is just going to lead to nothing if they don't give in.

Having spent a lot of time in the crew room in MSP this week, I heard no one say they are looking for an industry leading contract. I mean it is going to be hard enough to get Uncle Phil to agree on just getting Pinnacle and Colgan pilots up to our rates. I will certainly NOT go back.

I'd like to see changes in FO pay, reserve rules, I want Pinnacle Heathcare and Pinnacle vacation, I would really like to see Colgan get our Q400 rates.

I hope we can take the best parts of all current contracts, get some QOL issues dealt with and maybe a increase in pay. Then make the term SHORT so that when the negotiations drag on we don't go backwards.

No matter what happens if there is a contract reached (I never knew the time line till a couple of days ago - I will believe it when I see it) Pinnacle and Colgan guys can out vote the Mesaba guys. I could live with that.

This whole post is quite troubling but I just quoted one part from it. Do you really think that Pinnacle management expected Mesaba pilots to NOT be looking for more than the current contract? Mesaba's contract was/is up for negotiation soon anyways. I don't think anyone is going to give a yes vote to keep going with the current concessionary/bankruptcy contract for another 5 years. This is the chance to bring EVERYONE up, not just Pinnacle and Colgan.

We are all more valuable than you think. I am hoping we are all in for a nice suprise. The Pinnacle world is a different world now that they are looking to merge everything and the Pinnacle and Colgan pilot groups now have A LOT more leverage - leverage is something you didn't really have before this. Now you do.

If everyone looks at the big picture they will realize almost 3,000 pilots working together will accomplish a heck of a lot more than individual groups. Every group brings something to the table whether you realize that or not and all groups have a common goal. Whatever TA comes out for the JCBA has to be passed by all 3 MEC's and all pilots so everyone has skin in the game and a say. The past is the past- build on the good points and learn from the bad.

Just curious what is the mesaba q400 pay scale? Thanks.

Q400 rates at Mesaba are the same as the CRJ 200 rates at Mesaba...FO's are still blended

As bored said above, alot of guys come on here and say everyone has to vote after the MEC's vote to approve this (if they do), and thats my worry of being sold out, I'll say it once, and I'll say it again, it's never good to go into a consolidation of labor groups having the best contract, because gains will be minimal...I'de like every person at 9E and 9L to read the XJ contract, as I'm sure some of you have, so you know what you are getting yourself into and consider that as a starting point for negotiations, not an ending...I have been hearing form the MEC leadership that not having XJ integrated is/will cost(ing) 9E management almost 1 million a month in excess cost and if no contract is negotiated and things remain seperate it will continue that way for a very long time. WE NEED TO GET THIS RIGHT...

No you didn't sell out on TA1 but I'm curious how close TA1 was to the current XJ contract? That's a question I've been asking since July 1 and no one seems to have an answer...

Commuting on RSV is terrible...MEM guys have FedEx so you can at least get out the night after your rsv duty/morning of in some cases...if FedEx has service where you're from. Good luck. RSV at PNCL is beyond brutal. Hopefully things keep moving and you only experiance a few months there.

great..lol..hopefully...with the new negotiations there will be a better reserve agreement...im out of FLL so fedex isnt an option...i will mostly likely be based out of dtw..spirit or delta are my only nonstop options....unless I get JFK..which has a million of flights in an out of there..but i hear there are a lot of delays getting in and out of there too

FedEx has plenty of flights to and from FLL> I have taken them myself. So as he said if you get MEM based that is a option for you. And they are so great to take. Such a easy system and proffesional. Atleast in my experience.

I would looooooooove to read the XJ contract so I have an understanding but I don't have access to a copy of it.... does anyone on here have a PDF copy they could send me?

MEM would be nice..but i hear its crazy senior...im going to get either DTW or JFK..

9E and 9L guys...I Uploaded the current XJ contract to MegaUpload for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5ZCOG1Z0

I thought I saw in the mesaba contract they had rates for large turboprop (over 50 seats?)

I saw it in some of the documents I was looking at a while back, it was slightly higher than crj2 on the CA side. I'd look at the contract above but I'm on my phone.

Can anyone fill me in or am I incorrect and it is straight crj2 pay for the -400?