N42ER

Telex 850 works for me in the Dash...ANR with no batteries needed; it just gets its power through the jack. It helps for those radio calls that come in right when you're putting the props back after landing, or while on takeoff (because it can get a bit loud sometimes)

PaFlyer

ANR is definitly worth it. After 10 years in the airplane and the wife shouting at me, I've lost some hearing. I recently broke down and got a good pair of ANR and only wish i did it sooner. the airplane is not as quite as some in the company (PDT) think it is.

Cruise

YES......need your hearing to qualify for your job, right??? That should answer the question right there.

ANR is the way to go....many choices out there, just choose one. I personally use the Sennheiser HMEC 26's. Love 'em. But, there are many other manufacturers and I highly, highly recommend using ANR when you fly.

sulkair

Well I drove out to the Bose store today to put on a set of Q15’s. I have to say I was somewhat disappointed. I'm not sure what I was expecting, never put ANR on my head in my life until today, but I guess I thought they would be amazing or something. Granted I was in the Bose showroom floor and not the cockpit, but they didn't seem to reduce anymore noise than my Flightcom clamps (non ANR) - Obviously they are immensely more comfortable I'll grant you, but I could still hear a lot of sounds coming from the outside: I could hear my kids laughing, whining, crying, and people chatting 10 feet away. They even had a simulated jet noise that came on in the store periodically and I wasn't that impressed with the reduction in that sound either. (And yes, they were turned on) I mean wow, they were cool, and the ANR was remarkable, but when I got home I put on my clamps to compare and my kids sounded about the same as under the Q15s. I'm not looking to upgrade for comfort only at this point; I’m looking to cut out the deep low roar of the prop while climbing out at 900 Np. Will the Q-15's do that or are they just a more comfortable way of achieving an 'equal' degree of noise suppression as the old tried and true "clamp and seal" David Clark style method?

Foxy

Just for the record, ANR isn't made to reduce the sound of kids whining, etc. It's made to reduce repetitive low-frequency noise by analyzing a sample of the noise and generating the same waveform 180 degrees out of phase, so that noises like kids whining, etc, comes through clearer while the repetitive low-frequency (do you like how I did that?) noise is phase-cancelled out.

That said, there has been recent research that suggests, and I believe there's a possibility, that ANR doesn't itself prevent hearing damage. The passive noise reduction value of the headset still does, of course. I don't have a reference, so don't take that as a fact without looking it up yourself. (But the first part is)

~Foxy

CAPIP1998

I'm in the Dash as well and have been looking at the new Beyerdynamic 600's. I know they are a very good microphone company but they are new to the aviation market. Has anybody tried these yet?

Sniper

That tells me your 'clamps' are no better than the QC-15 with the ANR off - aka, not very good.

As 'Foxy' said, ANR samples the sound and creates an out of phase sound to cancel it. If anything, your kids should be louder with the QC-15's than they are with the 'clamps'. The 'clamps' reduce all sound equally. The QC-15's (and all ANR) reduce all sound equally the same way the 'clamps' do, passively (though usually not very much), and then reduce 'constant' noise through the ANR as a 'bonus', if you will.

Since no one has independently tested the various headsets (Bose won't put a NRR on any of their headsets) against each other, it's hard to prove one way or the other. If you go to UFlyMike's website you can see they have a pilot survey of various headsets. Now, maybe the data is skewed b/c this survey was likely done by UFlyMike users, but it captures the sentiments of most pilots pretty well. The 'clamps' are unsafe b/c they are uncomfortable, the fancy Bose headset is super expensive, and any non-over the ear headset lets in too much noise, whether it's got ANR or not. Most every pilot who has tried the UFlyMike prefers it to any other set-up.

The biggest downside of the UFM is that you have to turn your overhead speaker on if the battery dies and you don't have a spare, as the headphones stop putting out audio entirely if the battery dies (see the paragraph below for a detailed TSO discussion). The 'low battery' light blinks to tell you it is low about 5 hours before it dies, so you really have to be an idiot or penny pincher to let it die. As UFM points out, airplanes run off batteries and fuel, which are both expendable power sources. As a pilot, it is your job to monitor expendable energy sources already, so you can handle the battery issue.

For the TSO'd forum nerds (if you don't know what I'm talking about, skip this paragraph): No discussion of the UFlyMike would be complete without the question - is it TSO'd? The FAA does not require you to use a TSO'd headset, only some airlines do. All TSO'd headsets require that you be able to hear ATC passively, and the Bose QC2 and QC15 don't do this (that's why Bose makes you pay over $1000 for their 'aviation' headset, so that it makes noise when the battery dies, and why Bose pushed the TSO angle, as UFM undercut their huge profit machine). If you fly for an airline that demands TSO approved headsets, you must also use the Westone UM1 earbuds (you can't just use any iPod ear buds, you have to use Westone UM1 earbuds, as they were the ones used for the TSO certification). So you have to buy the UFM A100T (the microphone), the Westone UM1 earbuds, and a QC2 (the QC-15 is not yet TSO approved with the UFM as of this writing). That's $225 for the UFM, $5 for shipping, $79 for the ear buds, and $299.95 for the Bose (or whatever the price is for the QC2, since Bose doesn't sell them anymore). You also have to get a special sticker put on your QC2's and UFM. Yes, seriously. All this is to have a TSO'd headset b/c a certain airline in the 'southwest' get a burr under their saddle about all their pilots using non-TSO'd headsets, and then it spread like wildfire. Of course, if you have modified your headset at all (custom ear molds, new mic muff, added ANR, ANYTHING but totally, 100% stock) your headset isn't TSO'd either - it has to be in the same EXACT configuration that it got certified as TSO'd in. So, essentially, 95% of guys don't bother with all this, and 5% of guys have the fancy ear buds and stickers so that when their Chief Pilot or FAA POI mouths off to them about their non-TSO'd headset, they can put them in their place.

It's not coincidence that the new Bose QC15's came out, and then the Bose A20 aviation headset came out. Both claim to have better ANR than their predecessors (the QC2 and X) b/c they have a second microphone on the exterior of the ear cup and redesigned ear cushions. As far as your ears are concerned, they're the exact same . . . except one of them costs $796 more than the other one b/c it has a microphone and still lets the sound come through after the battery dies, but is unusable as a non-aviation headset.

I just tried to find this research. Reference please? Sound waves, like all waves, cancel each other out if 180 degrees out of phase. In the same way that you can make water flat by canceling out waves by creating 'opposite waves' (try it in a sink or bathtub), you can make sound 'flat' - ie, quiet. If ANR doesn't reduce sound amplitude (what leads to hearing loss), than that would possibly have major implications in many areas of physics, not just ear phones.

--
Sorry for the length.

trip

Good write up in Plane & Pilot on ANR vs PNR in the Nov. issue. ANR does nothing for the high frequency noise like wind and jet engines! Double protection is the best way to go, wish I had doubled up earlier because I wouldn't have this dam ringing in my ears now.

Sniper

That article is suspect.

The article cites no sources (or even states "studies have shown") in the section where it identifies jet flight deck noise as "higher frequency noise". It uses general terms, like "most ANR headsets". Which ones are included in 'most', which ones aren't? What data is this statement based on?

Boeing did a study to reduce flight deck noise in the 737NG, the results of which were discussed in May 2004. At the "pilots right ear" @ 35,000 ft and .78 M, the loudest noise was @ the 225 Hz frequency, and the greatest noise was between the 150 - 300 Hz Frequency range. Incidentally, these are around the same frequencies that Plane and Pilot identifies as the ones ANR works best at. Furthermore, the loudest noise in a 737 flight deck in the study was from the "ECS" (Environmental Control System). While the "Turb. Boundary Layer" is the highest contributor to noise @ 600 Hz and above, the overall noise is almost 20 dB than @ the 225 Hz peak. In short, the loud noise is where ANR works best at making loud noise go away.

As the US Navy has found:
There is simply not an objective way to evaluate ANR headsets right now against each other.

However, the results of the 45th Navy Occupational Health & Preventive Medicine Conference Audiology Session are clear; the only noise reduction method to achieve the highest level of noise reduction is "Active Noise Reduction".

If you double up (earplugs inside your headset) it'll work better, ANR or not. That's a better option for hearing protection, but often won't work in a non-hot mic environment. The best option is wearing a "custom deep insert ear plug" (goes beyond the second bend in the ear canal) under your headset, and is the option Navy recommends on Aircraft Carriers (except for the LSO, b/c he needs to be able to communicate aurally, as well as hear the changes in thrust of landing aircraft).