Same could be said of ASA, but the problem being is the senior guys that got here have stayed here and, for the most part, not moved on because it would be a major step backwards for them monetarily...I'm sure this could be correlated to almost any other airline as well with 2008 being the complete debacle that it was...hopefully things will pick up somewhere between now and my retirement date of 2048....( god i think i just puked a little )

 

I think you forget many of us coming into the regional game are coming from jobs that pay per hour, and those hours are an on-demand basis. IE flight instructors who might have a great AUG and make $4,000 that month, but also make $400 all of Dec. Also have no benefits, pay for plane tickets, and are ready to move out of their home towns/college towns. Or in my case jump pilots with seasonal work, and no benefits, and sick of piston airplanes. You are saying don't take this or that, when your at that point you would rather take anything else.

 

There are many opinions on how to be successful with this career. I personally know guys at a many airlines, bottom feeders all the way up to some top tier places, and I know guys who “did everything right” and are sitting on furlough or not where they ever wanted to be.
The only part I would take issue with is to totally dismiss upgrade time. I know guys who have been in the biz for as long as me, 8 years, and have ZERO pic turbine time. Ouch. Sure there are jobs that you can get that don’t need TPIC, even Delta was hiring pilots with zero PIC during this last little wave they went through, but on the whole, it’s required dues for most of us. So you need to look at everything, in a rough priority order;

1. Bases
2. Pay
3. Benefits, - health, 401k matching?
4. Work rules - duty rigs? JA's? Commuter policy if you're going to do that
5. Upgrade time
6. Company Culture
7. Career-ability (made up that word) If everything goes south, can I stay here and make a career and be content?
8. Union? (even if there is a union on property it can be toothless too or the other way, too combative and you don't get anywhere either)

Each individual will weigh each one a little differently, so focus on the company who is hiring that works the best for what's important for you.

Also, on the regional level keep to the common sense rules;

1. Keep your overhead as low as possible! Even when you upgrade. The transtion from RJ CA to Main Line FO can be rough. It may take a few years to replace that RJ CA pay. (I type this shaking my head in disgust)
2. At any airline it holds true, but on the regional level, as absurd as it is to say, LIVE IN BASE! As stated in previous posts, your QOL will be SO much better, especially with the games airlines will play with your schedule. It’s nice to see a flight cancled, or changed and think, “oh well, guess I’ll head home and stop at the Home Depot to finish that little project…” Can’t beat it.
3. Don’t buy a house (you will most likely move, multiple times, and if you turn your home into a rental, being a land lord can be frustrating when you’re a long way away) This way you can respect #2 above. And in many markets, FL, MI, NV, AZ parts of CA what's the point?
4. If you’re single, stay that way (yea I know this is a tough one, whatever)
5. If you do get married, I sure hope your other half is pulling down a good salary, because making it on Regional FO pay is tough, Regional CA pay is passable. Add in the student loans though and your back to tough...
6. Network and always be nice, you just never know...

Good luck, roll the dice…

(and sports fans, feel free to add to that list of "rules" for successful Regional Pilot living. And no, don't steal the light bulbs, toilet paper or towels from the hotel rooms.)

 

Okay, so let's look at pay. My first year I took home about 1000 per month after taxes, insurance, and uniform allotment. Yes, I had insurance, but I paid a good chunk for it. Admittedly, we do have a new TA, and I am sure it is a HUGE improvement for me, but it isn't like hitting the lottery.

I did flight instructing, hauled boxes, air ambulance work, corporate, and some contract work, but the first two years at my regional were by far the worst.... and I KNEW what I was getting into.

Sick of pistons? geez. In years to come you will judge the planes you flew by things like the quality of the seat, how quickly it heated up in the winter or cooled in the summer, and if it had decent cup holders. Other than that all that counts is the pay and schedule. Give me the same QOL, good job security, and the same pay, and I will fly a 150. I would say I'd miss air conditioning, but since the Saab's is so bad, being able to open the windows sounds pretty good.

Probably the job I enjoyed most was moving boxes in a Caravan, and I got it right after instructing. I worked at an outstation, did two legs a day, only saw my boss twice each year, got to wear shorts and a polo shirt, had every holiday off, and paid the bills. No long trips and every Saturday night I was out getting slapped by a few women. A similar job now starts around 35k with benefits. That's a whole lot better than 20k flying 90 hours per month.

Look, this isn't a hobby, it is a job. Yeah, I still like to fly, but my ideal schedule is two legs per night, three nights per week. Any more than that is just labor. It isn't about what you fly, where your hotel is located, or having people in airports ask you where baggage claim is located. It is about pay and QOL.

 

Not to be a jerk but you just sound bitter. I would have stuck somewhere like Wiggins, got the pic turbine time for 35k/year and moved on, why you downgraded to Lakes is beyond me.

 

Not to be a jerk, but you sound like an immature pilot who can't wait to get out of piston airplanes to play airline pilot. You do realize that you will get sick of flying turboprops too, right?

FlyJSH, is not bitter. He has some great advice that you just don't want to hear. You want someone to tell you going from flying jumpers to flying for GL will make your life better. It will not. Only your logbook will improve. Your experience there will qualify you for better jobs, but realize that you are not the only one at GL or any other airline looking to get a flying job that has decent pay.

 

good thread all around. I definitely appreciate when you more experienced guys out there share advice in a neutral light. Noobs like myself got plenty to learn when it comes to this business-we'd rather hear it in advance from you guys that find out the real hard way later on.

btw flying is a career we've all embarked on hopefully because we are passionate about aviation. There've been plenty of days where I grew weary of instructing but at the end of the day I still enjoyed flying and helping others along in their journey. My QOL was good enough that my goal for the next level is to keep it that way. Get paid what I am worth, to some degree. No steps backwards. I couldn't imagine taking less money than I currently make and have a worse schedule with tremendously increased responsibility (i.e. flying paying pax around versus flying 1 student around). Why should any pilot settle for less than that? I'm not even through my first airline ground school yet and I'm already seeing how much abuse management can throw around. Yikes.

Veteran regional guys out there, keep it coming. We need to hear it.

 

It sounds like FLYRJSH has great advice. Here's my advice! Great Lakes sucks at best. I was there during some of the best hiring of the decade so I was lucky and got out in 4 years. I took advantage of them as much as they did me. I took two type ratings and a checkairmen letter away from the deal and made the best of my time there by meeting new friends and learning how to be a pilot.
These days, I wouldnt tell my worst enemy to go to GLA because there is no near future hope of escaping.

The airplanes are old and falling apart. (terrible maintenance and lack of resources doesnt help) The entire management puts safety on the back burner and treats long time loyal employees like garbage, especially gate agents and the like.

I will try to find a letter I wrote to the director of operations after multiple maintenance and safety issues I encountered over a period of time and post it for you on here. It fell on deaf ears, obviously. If you decide to go to GLA, dont say we didnt warn you and dont get on here and cry because you hate your life and are stuck in a training contract. Just learn how to bend over and take it, because that is what working for lakes is all about. Enjoy!

 

I struggle to understand the guys who defend making flight instructing a career, or linger there any longer than necessary with respect to the industry’s hiring trend, unless of course you absolutely LOVE doing it, then I have a great deal of respect for you. But for most of us, we enjoyed it, did what we had to do to move on, had the long days, one after the other, but the guys who can’t take the pay cut from their 141 flight instructor job, you have really painted yourself into a corner. Job for job, I would much rather roll up to my (insert regional aircraft), go through my preflight, acceptance check, program the box, and then sit and sip my coffee while the FA and pax get settled. Do that for a few legs a day, over a few days on a trip and then go home. No fuss no muss. Not to mention, it’s a lot easier to make the transition to a “major’ (cough cough, ah-hem) airline from a regional flying a turbine around, than flying the nicest equipment at any flight school. Not saying it’s impossible, but you better have some mind blowing connections.

The gist of my note here is not to knock flight instructors at all, especially the career ones, again, much love, but to say, don’t pass on a regional job cause of the pay. Keep driving that car from college, live with a roommate, keep the expenses low, and plow into the regional job knowing all the risks but staying optimistic about it, that you will be the one who get’s in, upgrades, and moves on. It does happen and will happen. Will you be the one?

Post script, did it happen for me? Not really, but I’m tracking just fine and I do know enough pilots who it did happen too. Fly safe, be positive with everybody you meet and opportunities will come your way.

 

He isn't bitter and he doesn't work for GLA... I work with this guy and he is positive and upbeat all of the time. He is just offering a realistic point of view which may not sit well with people but at least its the truth. I too went from hauling boxes to a regional and took a substantial pay/QOL cut in doing so... but truth be told I would have made the same decisions if I had to do it all over again.