Hey gasser, how could inserting a mistakenly short runway scenario into sim training hurt anything? It seems obvious that the pilots on this CRJ had a very quick decision and it is also painfully obvious that they chose improperly. Had they considered this scenario at some point in their training, I'm certain that they would have attempted an abort as soon as they recognized their plight. I've trained for a lot of types and PC's and I'm quite certain that I can accomplish a V1 cut with the best of em. I'm also certain that this crew could also accomplish the same go/no go decision with a positive outcome. But the scenario never included a real worry of runway overrun; it's always possible to either stop or continue. The situation yesterday morning was neither. It is NOT as simple as aborting if you lose an engine below V1. We've all trained for that. We've all seen it, and can react. Suddenly realizing that the runway is gone isn't something that anyone that I am aware of has ever trained for. These poor men were faced with a blink of the eye decision and they had ZERO prior experience on which to base that decision. So again, I ask you, how could slipping one of these deals into a sim ride at some point in training not help? Why would it be an inane idea?

I'm not pointing a finger, speculating or blaming. I'm just pointing out that they would have had a better chance of a positive outcome if they'd had some previous chance to contemplate the situation.

edit: I asume that they had zero prior training because I've never heard of this scenario in training and I've done my fair share of training. If anyone has ever heard of it, please let me know.

 

Given even two seconds to think about it, I'm sure that most well trained crews would not even think about trying to rotate below V1 or Vmu. However, I doubt that these men had so much as a split second to think.

But for the grace of God, there go I.

 

It must be nice to have that big "S" on your chest.

 

The NTSB released some information regarding some of the conversation from the CVR. The spokeswoman (NTSB rep) stated that on the tape the captain called out V1 and VR. Based on what has been released so far, I wonder if they were even aware that the end of the runway was as close as it was.

 

There's the statement of the day.

 

If it were me...

 

First off, I would like to say thank you to all of the kind words here from almost everyone. It is very appreciated.

To all of the other specially trained super secret agents here, just shut the hell up!! You were not there that day, so you know NOTHING! Information about Comair procedures on this form is wrong, the airport diagram is NOT accurate, flaps 30 gives you more drag than lift and would lower the nose,(thus reducing lift), and do not even get me started on how good the news media is. Armchair quaterbacks are not needed here.

If I had a dollar evertime a pilot has taxied onto the wrong runway or taken-off/landed on a TAXIWAY, I would be rich enough to retire. Please do not act like this is something new and you are special enough to provide the answer to the ONE fix or answer. Honeywell has already done that.

 

Well said. Now can we let this thread finally end?