Have you seen the pay structure? That is the very defination of horribly bad.

Absolute no vote here. It was a terrible idea to pay the Q at 50 seat rates back when that was being passed around as what was going to happen and to actually go several dollars an hour less is embarrassing. Every pilot should vote no to a 74 seat airplane getting 40 seat pay.

tprops have always been paid less than jets. always have, always will. read flying the line Vol. 1 and 2. Not saying it's right, but that's just how it goes.

Pay should be based on revenue generated. If a 70 carries more revenue than a 50 seater then the pay should be greater on the 70 seat aircraft. Regardless of the type of propulsion system.

Using your logic, the industry has given concessions for the past decade so we must continue to give concessions.

GMAFB:confused:

agreed, but it has never happened at any level. The q rates in this TA will equal 50 seat rates at year 5. Hopefully in the next contract we can reverse the trend and have the q rates above the 50 seat rate.

If you are willing to settle for this then you are right, it will never happen.

Five years is a long time to wait for appropriate rates, add to that another three or more years of negotiations. If your group is unwilling to make 70 seat rates comparable to other 70 seat rates regardless of t-prop or jet then the next group to negotiate any 70 seat rate will have that much harder of a time.

Managements perspective will be "hey our 70 seat jet rates are more than brand X's 70 seat (turbo prop) rates so you are paid too much for us to be competitive. We would love to give you a raise but we need concessions to keep our current flying."

Congratulations on your improved contract.

It will be a shame when a B scale is accepted at a regional.

Anybody willing to compare the "summary" to AWAC's 2003 concessionary contract, let alone XJT 2004 or AWAC/CMR 2001?

Here's a reality check for all the those screaming to vote no.

This TA gives Pinnacle and Colgan a huge pay raise and QOL increase, regardless of whether the Q gets paid less than the 50 seat jets or the Saab A and B scales. Mesaba guys aren't getting much but it's still an improvement.

If we vote this down, Pinnacle Corp will still find a way to do what they want and we will be stuck in negotiations as seperate companies and lists for many years to come while our pilots aren't making enough to live.

AWAC/CMR 2001 should have been the starting point for negotiations. It is ten years old so it should be cost competitive.

How have we come to value our skills and training so little?

ARW 2001 CBA

ARW 2003 Concessionary CBA

You automatically assume more seats equals more revenue. I'm sure the road show will explain the rates.