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Originally Posted by BigBallzMagee
(Post 966504)
So like I said it's all about the individuals piloting ability and decision making and not an arbitrary number....
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Totally agree...Def Need a interview and checkride. If they have low time so be it though. If they can't hack it then this process along with OE should weed them out. Based on skills and not numbers.
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Ok here is the DEAL FOLKS, a 190 hour wonder pilot CANNOT UPGRADE!!!! I think you need a bit of PIC time before that nice ATP can be printed... oops.... and what about that total time you will be needed? Yeah right now the guys will have it but when we see 2 year upgrades...think not.
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Originally Posted by Natca
(Post 967020)
Ok here is the DEAL FOLKS, a 190 hour wonder pilot CANNOT UPGRADE!!!!
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Originally Posted by Natca
(Post 967020)
Ok here is the DEAL FOLKS, a 190 hour wonder pilot CANNOT UPGRADE!!!! I think you need a bit of PIC time before that nice ATP can be printed... oops.... and what about that total time you will be needed? Yeah right now the guys will have it but when we see 2 year upgrades...think not.
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Originally Posted by Al Czervik
(Post 967158)
Wow... your lost.
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Originally Posted by Pro Fessional
(Post 967163)
Wow... The word you are looking for is "you're."
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Pinnacle can, and does, upgrade pilots with less than 250 hrs PIC time. That's how the Gulfstream heroes got their command.
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 967404)
Pinnacle can, and does, upgrade pilots with less than 250 hrs PIC time. That's how the Gulfstream heroes got their command.
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Originally Posted by Natca
(Post 967020)
Ok here is the DEAL FOLKS, a 190 hour wonder pilot CANNOT UPGRADE!!!! I think you need a bit of PIC time before that nice ATP can be printed... oops.... and what about that total time you will be needed? Yeah right now the guys will have it but when we see 2 year upgrades...think not.
They will have an endorsement on their license that states: does not meet ICAO requirements When they hit the 250hrs they go to the FSDO with the logbook and get a new license. |
Originally Posted by WIPilot
(Post 967405)
Because you need 250 hours pic in a cessna to be a good airline pilot
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Originally Posted by detpilot
(Post 967420)
No, but 250 hours in command of SOMETHING is better than 50.....
Space shuttle time would be nice too |
Originally Posted by WIPilot
(Post 967431)
Space shuttle time would be nice too
But of course, this isn't as important... after all, it's only our families on board. |
Not to overstate the obvious, but there is no such thing as a "fast-track". And, I am not trying to be harsh, but hasn't Pinnacle learned the hard way with this kind of thing before in their relationship with Gulfstream for example? There is no substitute for experience, and we are going to go thru another round like 06-07 here in a year or so when they will be hiring anyone with a pulse again.
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Pinnacle puts WMU aviation grads on fast track March 14, 2011 KALAMAZOO--Graduates of Western Michigan University's flight science program will enjoy the benefits of having the inside track to jobs with three regional airlines, thanks to a new agreement signed this month by Pinnacle Airlines Corp. and WMU's College of Aviation. The college and airline inked an agreement that will launch a Professional Pilot Direct Hire Program that will put WMU grads among the first in line for pilot positions without having to go through the traditional recruiting and interview process. The agreement, effective immediately, will mean that WMU flight alumni who meet the company requirements will be placed on a list of approved new-hire candidates for first officer positions that open up with Pinnacle, Mesaba Airlines and Colgan Air Inc. "This program is possible because Pinnacle believes the qualities of the individuals who successfully complete the University's flight science degree program meet or exceed all standards with which we measure pilot qualifications and professionalism," says Philip Trenary, president and chief executive officer of Pinnacle Airlines Corp. The agreement is only the second such direct-hire program in the nation the airline has entered into. To qualify, students must have earned their bachelor's degree in aviation flight science from WMU with a GPA of 3.0 or higher. They also must have an FAA-issued Multiengine Land Commercial Pilot License or an FAA-issued Multiengine Land Airline Transport Pilot License. The training for those licenses must have been done at WMU. In addition, Pinnacle requires candidates to meet a number of background and safety checks and to have completed the minimum number of hours--250--required by the FAA to be employed as an air carrier first officer. "I'm so pleased for our pilots," says Capt. Dave Powell, dean of WMU's aviation college. "This is a real tribute to the caliber of the graduates we produce. Our grads and students are already showing a great deal of interest in this program." Powell says the agreement can significantly reduce the number of post-license flying that most commercial pilots have to accrue before they are hired as commercial first officers. Most significant, he says, is the fact that WMU students can earn their multiengine licenses in fewer than 43 flight hours. Pinnacle's assessment of the quality of that training means students do not have to accrue additional multiengine hours before they are eligible for first officer seats. "Pinnacle is telling us they consider our grads among the best pilot prospects in the industry," Powell says. "Being a successful WMU flight alum is the quality indicator they are looking for as they build their future work force." Pinnacle Airlines began operations in 1985 as Republic Express with service to three small communities in the South from its Memphis, Tenn., hub. Today, it flies more than 740 Delta Connection flights daily to 120 airports across the United States and Canada. The company employs more than 7,700 people operating Pinnacle, Colgan and Mesaba Airlines. Colgan is a regional airline also headquartered in Memphis. Colgan Air operates as Continental Connection, United Express and US Airways Express. Launched in 1991, Colgan offers more than 350 daily flights to 53 cities in 15 states and Canada. Mesaba operates as a Delta Connection carrier under service agreements with Delta. The rapidly expanding airline serves more than 110 cities in the United States and Canada from Delta's hubs in Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Memphis, Atlanta, and Salt Lake City. The WMU College of Aviation boasts enrollment of nearly 700 students in three programs: Aviation Maintenance Technology, Aviation Science and Administration, and Aviation Flight Science. The college's mission is to prepare leaders who are sought after by the aerospace industry and to engage in meaningful research that advances the knowledge base. Founded in 1939, the college has operated since 1997 from the W.K. Kellogg Airfield in Battle Creek. |
This "fast track" is a joke. Isn't the FAA implementing 1500hr with ATP written mins soon? I personally believe a 250hr pilot has no business flying my family or yours around the country.
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Originally Posted by BlueMoon
(Post 967466)
I already feel sorry for the Captains who will have to babysit these "fast track" wonders. |
"This program is possible because Pinnacle believes the qualities of the individuals who successfully complete the University's flight science degree program meet or exceed all standards with which we measure pilot qualifications and professionalism," says Philip Trenary |
"Powell says the agreement can significantly reduce the number of post-license flying that most commercial pilots have to accrue before they are hired as commercial first officers. Most significant, he says, is the fact that WMU students can earn their multiengine licenses in fewer than 43 flight hours. Pinnacle's assessment of the quality of that training means students do not have to accrue additional multiengine hours before they are eligible for first officer seats."
.... wow. This is garbage. "significantly reduce the number of post-license flying " Umm... post-license flying is usually called experience. This deal means they don't need experience. They only have to have 43 multi hours! WMU fast-track grads... hopefully not coming to a crash site near you. Good luck to the captains flying with these guys, hope you don't get violated. |
Originally Posted by mg815
(Post 967537)
plenty of furloughed\qualified guys out there who have real experience
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000 |
Originally Posted by yamahas3
(Post 967593)
"Powell says the agreement can significantly reduce the number of post-license flying that most commercial pilots have to accrue before they are hired as commercial first officers. Most significant, he says, is the fact that WMU students can earn their multiengine licenses in fewer than 43 flight hours. Pinnacle's assessment of the quality of that training means students do not have to accrue additional multiengine hours before they are eligible for first officer seats."
.... wow. This is garbage. "significantly reduce the number of post-license flying " Umm... post-license flying is usually called experience. This deal means they don't need experience. They only have to have 43 multi hours! WMU fast-track grads... hopefully not coming to a crash site near you. Good luck to the captains flying with these guys, hope you don't get violated. LOL!! Pinnacle should start slapping stickers on the side of their airplanes like tractor trailers have that say "WANT TO BE A PILOT!? WE'RE NOW HIRING! NO EXPERIENCE NEEDED! CALL XXX-XXX-XXXX NOW!!" |
No interview? Guaranteed job placement? I know I am a little late to the party, but that just seems strange. I know most places will at least give you an interview but in the end, the HR people can at least say "Well he has the hours, but woe be upon any crew that has to overnight with him." I mean, I thought that was the PURPOSE of the interview. To get to know the person. This process, this "fast track" doesnt even get a chance for the company to get to know the person. I am sure the person may be an excellent pilot but what if he is a stuck up, arrogant, jerk that no one could stand, let alone a 4 day trip.
Not to mention, this brings back 250 hour people in the right seat of an airplane. I wish I had a dollar for every time some one here said "The days of 250 hour wonders sitting the right seat of 121 are rightfully over." Id have a descent sum of cash. |
Originally Posted by Av8tion
(Post 967603)
mg815 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...s/viewpost.gif plenty of furloughed\qualified guys out there who have real experience +100000000000000000000000000000000000000 |
Originally Posted by snippercr
(Post 967830)
I know most places will at least give you an interview but in the end, the HR people can at least say "Well he has the hours, but woe be upon any crew that has to overnight with him." I mean, I thought that was the PURPOSE of the interview. To get to know the person. This process, this "fast track" doesnt even get a chance for the company to get to know the person. I am sure the person may be an excellent pilot but what if he is a stuck up, arrogant, jerk that no one could stand, let alone a 4 day trip.
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No Interview? Really? And the union can't stop this?
What is the reason for this? I assume it's becasue they would rather not pay a wage to attract qualified applicants. Your union allowing this to happen is reducing the pressure the company feels to attract pilots. Attract people with $$$!!! Looks like the contract you guys just signed is outdated, should have asked for more. |
Originally Posted by Window_Seat
(Post 967930)
No Interview? Really? And the union can't stop this?
What is the reason for this? I assume it's becasue they would rather not pay a wage to attract qualified applicants. Your union allowing this to happen is reducing the pressure the company feels to attract pilots. Attract people with $$$!!! Looks like the contract you guys just signed is outdated, should have asked for more. The second part is true...why pay more when you don't have to. |
Originally Posted by Window_Seat
(Post 967930)
No Interview? Really? And the union can't stop this?
What is the reason for this? I assume it's becasue they would rather not pay a wage to attract qualified applicants. Your union allowing this to happen is reducing the pressure the company feels to attract pilots. Attract people with $$$!!! Looks like the contract you guys just signed is outdated, should have asked for more. the union has nothing to do with hiring how do you think that they could stop this |
Originally Posted by WIPilot
(Post 967431)
Space shuttle time would be nice too
But of course, this isn't as important... after all, it's only our families on board. |
whats the number to that truck driving school? 1800-SIMPLYTHEBEST
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Don't most unions have a part of the contract that says they will be provided a roster of each newhire class and are given the authority to approve or disapprove its members?
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The unfortunate reality is that Union protection doesn't come into effect until you report for day 1 on the property, your date of hire... until then you're just the company's play-toy and the union can't do a thing about it... whether they want to hire military guys, furloughs, cfi's, meat-grinder jet school grads, space shuttle pilots, etc... is up to them... so start downloading the space shuttle on flight sim X...
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Originally Posted by lolwut
(Post 967967)
Don't most unions have a part of the contract that says they will be provided a roster of each newhire class and are given the authority to approve or disapprove its members?
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Originally Posted by BlueMoon
(Post 967892)
That apparently aren't applying (for whatever reason) or that is not who they want to hire
There's no way that people aren't applying who are actually qualified. Even companies that operate skyhawks are getting tons of resumes, so I can only imagine what the airlines get on a daily basis. I think it's more towards your second point, it's not who they want, which is whats sad because it falls under my last point. It's not who they want because it's not about quals, its about money and politics. It's unfortunate though that the airlines care more about that then the safety of their crews and pax |
Originally Posted by mg815
(Post 968010)
There's no way that people aren't applying who are actually qualified. Even companies that operate skyhawks are getting tons of resumes, so I can only imagine what the airlines get on a daily basis. I think it's more towards your second point, it's not who they want, which is whats sad because it falls under my last point. It's not who they want because it's not about quals, its about money and politics. It's unfortunate though that the airlines care more about that then the safety of their crews and pax
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Originally Posted by yamahas3
(Post 966038)
Wow if thats true, thats scary. No interview? Is that what you're saying? That sure is going to lead to some fun people to fly with.
What do you think of 'flow-through'? Just remember that those who 'flow-through' never went through 'that' airlines' interview process. In fact, I know at least five guys/girls who were rejected by AA and Delta (two of them twice), who are now flowing through to same airlines. |
Originally Posted by Max Glide
(Post 968056)
If you're an airline pilot, then you've already flown with some awful people...they also went through the interview.
(grabs helmet and dives into foxhole in anticipation of the flame war and stories of bad captains/FOs to come) |
Originally Posted by lolwut
(Post 967967)
Don't most unions have a part of the contract that says they will be provided a roster of each newhire class and are given the authority to approve or disapprove its members?
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The union has restrictions for upgrade mins and agency shop provisions. As far as hiring- there are very few things in place to allow for "Cleaning House".
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As long as these new guys are willing to work for cheap, managment will gladly take them in regardless of their lack of qualifications. Ask 9/10 Americans who Colgan Air is. You will get back blank stares.
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Originally Posted by CANAM
(Post 968375)
As long as these new guys are willing to work for cheap, managment will gladly take them in regardless of their lack of qualifications. Ask 9/10 Americans who Colgan Air is. You will get back blank stares.
And you may want to read the new contract all the way through. |
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