AE to get E175's?
02-12-2012 | 06:26 AM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
From: ????
How's December for ya? Maybe the entire industry changed in the 1.5 months I've been out. Based on what I've read though, I doubt it.
I understand all too well the Golden Handcuffs. Some guys get bogged down with a family, a house, cars, etc, etc, to the point where they are unwilling to move on. It's sad really, seeing some guys relegate themselves to the regional world simply because they are "comfortable." I understand the fear though, it's tough to move on and start over, especially in these uncertain times where a furlough could be just around the corner for anyone in the bottom 10-15% (my guesstimate) of a seniority list. Still, the more guys that stay put, the harder it becomes for other guys to move up and move on. It creates a log jam, if you will, which in turn makes things harder on those of us below.
I understand all too well the Golden Handcuffs. Some guys get bogged down with a family, a house, cars, etc, etc, to the point where they are unwilling to move on. It's sad really, seeing some guys relegate themselves to the regional world simply because they are "comfortable." I understand the fear though, it's tough to move on and start over, especially in these uncertain times where a furlough could be just around the corner for anyone in the bottom 10-15% (my guesstimate) of a seniority list. Still, the more guys that stay put, the harder it becomes for other guys to move up and move on. It creates a log jam, if you will, which in turn makes things harder on those of us below.
The reason I commented on your statement was it sounded to me like all we have to do is call up the majors and ask for the job and they would give it to us. You and I both know that is not the case. 9/11 really put the industry on it's rear and IMO really haven't recovered. I had a good friend that was hired by AA in the 60's with a temporary comm. certificate. At the time the Vietnam war was going on and having served your time in the military was big. They didn't want to train you then You get drafted. They still didn't have a multi ratings yet and he retired a DC10 captain. The point being that supply and demand affects all airlines.
People point fingers at regional pilots but I don't hear much criticism of the cut rate airlines like Spirit, Virgin America, Alegient etc. which I don't understand. They are the pilots flying the same size equipment for much less than the majors. At least the regionals are flying smaller equipment. Regional pilots don't decide to take flying from mainline. It's management so why be angry at the regional pilots? Sure, we could not take the job at the regionals but what happens when the majors start hiring? Most pilots would be rejected because of lack of currency.
Might I suggest that the majors and regionals stop bickering. Why don't the unions of the majors work on merging the list of the regionals and the majors and bring everyone under one umbrella. That way the majors can't play one against the other and scope would be more inclusive. It sure would make the pilots stronger when negotiating a contract.
If you have some secret way to move pilots from the regionals to mainline I would suggest that you start a job placement service. You could make a fortune.
Last edited by squawkoff; 02-12-2012 at 08:44 AM.
02-12-2012 | 06:27 AM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
You guys kill me. My sh**ty regional is better than yours. The regionals will never raise the bar so long as one ALPA carrier can undercut another ALPA carrier. Then take into account the regionals with different unions or no union and now you start seeing the picture. Being senior at a regional is a death nail. The moment your pilot group has longevity another group will be used against you. Throw in SJS and code share at the majors and I wonder if the majors will ever hire.
That is all for now.
You may return to your regional is better than mine because you work there.
TC
That is all for now.
You may return to your regional is better than mine because you work there.
TC
02-12-2012 | 10:54 AM
#93
I'm a man of my word.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,883
Likes: 0
From: Devil's Advocate
I know many captains, older and new captains alike, that are trying very hard to move to the majors but it's not like the majors are setting the world on fire with hiring. Late 80's and early 90's they were hiring like crazy. The problem we have now is that there are so many regional pilots that for every job there are 5 or more pilots trying to get it. Could the problem also be the 60 to 65 age extension? Those at the majors are sure quick to point the finger at the regional pilots yet many at majors could retire but they don't. They stay till the bitter end. What do you think would happen if there was no regionals? The majors would do one of two things. They would either not hire or they would be hiring the 800 hour pilots that the regionals hire.
The reason I commented on your statement was it sounded to me like all we have to do is call up the majors and ask for the job and they would give it to us. You and I both know that is not the case. 9/11 really put the industry on it's rear and IMO really haven't recovered. I had a good friend that was hired by AA in the 60's with a temporary comm. certificate. At the time the Vietnam war was going on and having served your time in the military was big. They didn't want to train you then You get drafted. They still didn't have a multi ratings yet and he retired a DC10 captain. The point being that supply and demand affects all airlines.
People point fingers at regional pilots but I don't hear much criticism of the cut rate airlines like Spirit, Virgin America, Alegient etc. which I don't understand. They are the pilots flying the same size equipment for much less than the majors. At least the regionals are flying smaller equipment. Regional pilots don't decide to take flying from mainline. It's management so why be angry at the regional pilots? Sure, we could not take the job at the regionals but what happens when the majors start hiring? Most pilots would be rejected because of lack of currency.
Might I suggest that the majors and regionals stop bickering. Why don't the unions of the majors work on merging the list of the regionals and the majors and bring everyone under one umbrella. That way the majors can't play one against the other and scope would be more inclusive. It sure would make the pilots stronger when negotiating a contract.
If you have some secret way to move pilots from the regionals to mainline I would suggest that you start a job placement service. You could make a fortune.
The reason I commented on your statement was it sounded to me like all we have to do is call up the majors and ask for the job and they would give it to us. You and I both know that is not the case. 9/11 really put the industry on it's rear and IMO really haven't recovered. I had a good friend that was hired by AA in the 60's with a temporary comm. certificate. At the time the Vietnam war was going on and having served your time in the military was big. They didn't want to train you then You get drafted. They still didn't have a multi ratings yet and he retired a DC10 captain. The point being that supply and demand affects all airlines.
People point fingers at regional pilots but I don't hear much criticism of the cut rate airlines like Spirit, Virgin America, Alegient etc. which I don't understand. They are the pilots flying the same size equipment for much less than the majors. At least the regionals are flying smaller equipment. Regional pilots don't decide to take flying from mainline. It's management so why be angry at the regional pilots? Sure, we could not take the job at the regionals but what happens when the majors start hiring? Most pilots would be rejected because of lack of currency.
Might I suggest that the majors and regionals stop bickering. Why don't the unions of the majors work on merging the list of the regionals and the majors and bring everyone under one umbrella. That way the majors can't play one against the other and scope would be more inclusive. It sure would make the pilots stronger when negotiating a contract.
If you have some secret way to move pilots from the regionals to mainline I would suggest that you start a job placement service. You could make a fortune.
I don't know, man, there's no easy solutions to the complications of this industry. I'm just frustrated as hell sometimes... wish I could get my hands on a crystal ball to see what the future holds.
02-12-2012 | 03:05 PM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 820
Likes: 0
A well thought out and written statement. I agree with just about everything you said, more or less. Your second to last paragraph is where we see eye-to-eye, One List would solve a world of problems.
I don't know, man, there's no easy solutions to the complications of this industry. I'm just frustrated as hell sometimes... wish I could get my hands on a crystal ball to see what the future holds.
I don't know, man, there's no easy solutions to the complications of this industry. I'm just frustrated as hell sometimes... wish I could get my hands on a crystal ball to see what the future holds.
I disagree about one list, it allows the idiots to get places they should not. Being so unionized we already have guys floating around that have been fired 5 times and saved by the union. Some of those idiots got to flow to American, the only possible way they would ever have gotten that job. I can think of one with a DUI, terrible work ethic, and a god awful attitude.
02-12-2012 | 08:57 PM
#98
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Unfortunately the mainline guys have already let the camel into the tent and sooner then not the camel with push all "mainline guys" out into the cold in one way or another. So if you want to hate, hate those that sold you and every one else out by giving into scope. Thanks mainline guys.
02-12-2012 | 09:17 PM
#100
I'm a man of my word.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,883
Likes: 0
From: Devil's Advocate
Ok, so you are not at the airlines any longer. Why are you trolling an airline forum? Good luck on your one man mission to fix scope.
Unfortunately the mainline guys have already let the camel into the tent and sooner then not the camel with push all "mainline guys" out into the cold in one way or another. So if you want to hate, hate those that sold you and every one else out by giving into scope. Thanks mainline guys.
Unfortunately the mainline guys have already let the camel into the tent and sooner then not the camel with push all "mainline guys" out into the cold in one way or another. So if you want to hate, hate those that sold you and every one else out by giving into scope. Thanks mainline guys.
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