I know exactly your situation I'm not sure how long you have been at Eagle or in the industry for but take a look around. We all know what your going through from mainline all the way down to regionals. Hell since I have been at Republic I have seen all the CRJ-200's go (25 I think), all the EMB-135's go (25 or so I think), half of our Emb-145's go (between 20-30)in april we park 4 EMB-170's (we sold one last year so thats 5), we are parking the last of the Q400's (that was 12) Finally we are returning 2 EMB-190's to the lessor here in a couple months.

Thats a total of 94 lost planes in 5 years with 2 furloughs, But you will not hear one single pilot at Republic say "lets take less pay so we can get more flying. Suck it up the only way this industry is going to get any stronger is if we all stick together, from majors to regionals, and say we will not sell ourselves out for more airplanes anymore and we want to be compensated to do our jobs.

Not to get to technical here because I agree with your point but in 1990 mainline was flying 100 seat and less jets. DC-9-30, 727 - 100 and ADV, 737 - 200 F - 100 I'm sure there are others but thats all I can come up with.

 

Disclaimer: I'm young and extremely naive.

Why would Republic pilots talk about "get more flying?" Aren't they technically a major since they own F9? Another thing I don't get about this industry: why would DAL (or UAL or US Airways) give more flying to airlines like SKW? SKW flies for every legacy out there except AA. Don't the managers realize they're giving money to a airline that can potentially take that money and finance the purchase of aircraft or additional routes for another airline?

What I'm asking is, couldn't SKW/ASA/PNCL etc take money from one major and use it to whipsaw someone else at another major? Or is the whipsaw really what it's all about?

 

B767 let me see if I can answer your questions:

First of a true Whipshaw is when a company use another company to get what they want. Example: Comair either lower your costs or we are going to give your planes to Go Jets. Or Frontier either come to the table with lower pay rates on the EMB - 190 or Republic will be flying them for you. And visa versa Republic either you fly the 190 for poverty wages or we are going to give them to Frontier and have to downgrade and furlough pilots. So SKW flying for US, UA, Alaska, and DL does not do anything to cause a whipshaw with in the Legacy airlines.

The Legacies contract out the regional flying becasue it is cheap. The money goes to keep the regional afloat not to the other legacy carriers. Skywest does not use DL money to fund UA flying. However, if DL wants new airplanes SKW can go out and use SKW money to buy the new planes. Not sure if all that makes sense.....

As for Republic. Yes we are a major but that is defined by the DOT on the amount of passengers you carry in a year. ExpressJet, Eagle, Skywest are also considered Majors. The Legacies are UA, DL, AA, US, HA, and probably SW by now. Republic was a Major before it bought F9. Even though Republic bought Frontier we still have contracts to fly for the Legacies, and can win more if we bid on the flying

Hope that helped

 

Thank you. That did help. However, you said SKW does not use money from DAL to finance UAL flying or aircraft. Do you know this as fact or just assuming? Is it in a contract somewhere? Cause I'm pretty sure SKW paid UAL quite a handsome amount of money to keep them, UAL (if i remember right...$80 mil or was that another airline?) afloat. Was that $80 mil all generated from UAL alone? Dead serious question. Not trying to pick a fight or anything.

 

You are kind of bluring lines together here yes back in the early 2000's many regionals did give there Legacy partners money and in return they got more flying. I can't remember amounts though, but Republic did this as well with US, that is how we got started in the 170 bussiness. In return for cash US basically gave us Mid Atlantic.

The majors sign a contract and as long as that contract is complied with the Legacy has to pay the regional. Once the regional gets the money it is theirs, they can use it however they like. DL does not care if SKW uses its money to buy new aircraft for UA becasue the contract is in compliance. If DL wanted new aircraft they would renegotiate with SKW and a deal would be hammered out and SKW would go buy airplanes for them.

I'm not sure if I'm getting my point across but it is a bussiness with contracts.

Anyways if you need more PM me were kind of veering off of the thread topic here.

 

You aren't veering of topic to much because this could play out at AMR, they could just have RAH or SKW finance the aircraft to feed AMR with! Not starting any rumors but it's a possibility!

 

True but the regionals just don't have the money they did back in the early 2000's. I don't think any regional today has the ability to provide financing to AA. But they could buy airplanes. However, I doubt a scenario of cash for flying will play out with AA.

 

Good point. However, USAir's model is to cram every possible passenger they can into their hulls, while offering the worst possible service per travel dollar, and everybody hates them for it. ****, dude; they pile 86 losers into a 175! So they are definitely not the bar with which to reference. Just for some perspective: Embraer lists their 2-class 190 config at 94 total, with 8 First, and Economy at 31" pitch. We're talking about reducing 6 seats, which could be done easily by increasing coach pitch to 32". I'm not saying it will happen, but it is definitely a possibility. Remember the whole "Increased Room in Coach" program back in the early 2000s? In the end, AA wants scope release, and the 190 under "Express" paint (or whatever) is a distinct possibility.

Compass, by the way, delivers a fantastic product at consistently above-industry-standard performance and customer-satisfaction numbers. They WILL be getting the bigger Embraers for AMR, not Eagle; and dimes to dollars, not RAH. Whether the 190s play or not remains to be seen.

 

AA does not care about service. And dont go by what people say, 85% of AE's cancellations are at the request of AA. Baggage mishandling at AE originates at AA but they pass the buck foe better numbers at AA. When Compass flies ( doubt it) for AA, let them try to keep those planes flying for the peanuts they will get. AE gets 4.5% profit and no payments for cancellations even when at the request of AA. Most others get 10%.

Compass does not have 1500 flights daily, AE does. Easy to have a tighter control on quality with 200 flights.

 

Fair enough. But no one is saying CPZ will be picking up 1000 flights/day off the bat. I would venture to guess 10 planes to start, with a modest introductionary (is that an actual word?) time-frame, then heavier as the years move on. Say what you want, but AE's cost structures will bury them -- a la Comair. Compass has the most overall experienced crews, at the longevity-limited lowest payscales in the entire "regional" industry (argue it if you want, but you're ****ing wrong). And passengers love what they do. Period. AE's days are numbered on any large scale. All the other hungry vultures are waiting to swoop--and the swooping is about to get good.