MachJ

FAA-H-8083-15A
Also known as the Instrument Flying Handbook p.10-8:

Starscream

Simple. Most turbine aircraft are more efficient the higher they are. Higher TAS, less fuel flow. Plus, I can't count the number of times ATC has started me down from a perfectly smooth cruise altitude into lower altitudes that have chop.

Enroute, a lot of the times it's simply an LOA with the adjacent ARTCC that traffic (say inbound from New York Center to CLE or DTW via such and such STAR) get handed off at FL2X0. In these cases I always come down very gradually and have yet to hear anything about it.

I've had many Captains tell me the controller "is trying to give you a hint." I've visited an ATC facility, and one myth quick put to bed was that controllers give 'hints' as opposed to instructions. If they need something, they will tell you. Once in a blue moon, my rate of descent is inadequate, in which case the controller will say, "at least 1500FPM till you're through FL270 for traffic," or "be level in 90 seconds or less." No biggie.

Agreed. I'm not a company man, but I'm thinking about fuel conservation. You never know when you'll need it. A few months ago I flew with an FO who had a "we need to get down, we need to get down" approach to flying, and going into a less busy Canadian Airport, his vertical planning had him level at 3,000FT 40 miles from the field. Fuel flow was through the roof and TAS/GS were both pathetic. Added both fuel consumption and time to the flight. What was the point of that? My carrier wants to save gas by giving us less and less on each flight, but they really don't teach vertical planning at the schoolhouse. If they did, they might better realize their goals.

BoilerUP

I hope you used that as a convenient excuse to discuss the 3:1 rule...

cornbeef007

This is the best answer. This burns the least amount of fuel and it's pretty rare that ATC says anything about a 500' descent rate. If they do, increase you rate of descent.

squawkoff

I was a controller for 25 years in the en route environment. When I would give a climb or decent clearance I could care less what the rate was. I monitored it and if I needed more I ask for it. If there was traffic I would either give a crossing restriction or a time to be at an altitude. Same with a descent. Most controllers have no clue how an aircraft properly enters a hold much less what the AIM says. When I was an instructor the trainee would give a clearance with the phrase "give me a good rate." I would ask him/her what a good rate was. Of course their answer was based on a guess of what the pilot thought a good rate was. My version of a good rate is 10% if I'm lending and 3% if I am borrowing. If you're given a crossing restriction or pilots discretion there is no rate.

Remember the AIM is regulatory by nature. I have never know a pilot to be violated for not following the AIM. Not saying it has never happened.

As for the original poster. Co-operate and graduate.

Lowlevel

Tell that to a CRJ-200 pilot trying to climb at FL350

ja2c

You are not going to find it. At the airline I work at, it is "technique" to do a 3 degree decent. 100% of the guys I fly with do it this way. Most of the time I do it unless I am flying with a Douche Bag, then I'll do 500fpm just to get him to tell me how to fly an airplane.

You need to let this one go though. I understand it is not Regulation in The Code of Federal Regulations Title 14 Aeronautics and Space. When you have your first line check, the check airman will suggest somethings to you. Again, if you don't agree, just say yes sir.

Tom a Hawk

Don't say "yes sir".

just say "if you would like me to pick up the descent rate, I would be happy to, Captain" and try to keep the sarcasm from dripping off your words.

I have had check airmen and regular captains micro manage saying a bunch of their own technique as actual procedure or what "a real pilot" does. I do have to say most was just utter carp, but I did learn one or two things, including how to focus so much on all these details that you still make bad decisions in applying them.

Seatownflyer

Haha. so true.

dundem

Quick question: ATC requests you descend from FL370 to FL310 about 30 minutes earlier than you'd like to. Your ground speed is about 450 knots as you're still at cruise speed. Are you telling me that 100% of the guys that you fly with would descend at 2250 fpm from FL370-FL310?

I know it's your opinion that the OP should "let this one go", but I respectfully disagree. I am by no means endorsing an argument with any LCA, but what he/she's doing here is a good idea, IMO. I wouldn't get into it with anyone over anything that doesn't jeopardize my safety or break any regs, but it's still better to know the difference between a reg and someone's personal preference.

As with many things aviation, there are many times that the technique used is based upon the situation.

While we're on this, I remember a situation at my current company. As with many arrivals, the one we were on had a crossing restriction. ATC cleared "when ready, descend & maintain FL 280 by QWERT". I called vacating and the LCA told me that I shouldn't in a radar environment. I told him that as far as I know, it's required to call vacating a previously assigned altitude for a new one. I kept it respectful and humble and there were no problems. I know that many times guys don't make the call and nothing happens; fair enough, but the regs say it's required.