Guys,

Most, if not all majoirs have 100 seat and lower Scope. DAL is at its limit for 76 seaters, and just about at its combined limit for 70 and 76 seaters.

AMR management is trying for 88 scope right now - this is currently the front line of the scope battle and management has the weapon of a 1113 BK motion. Lets all hope the APA dodges this bullet.

Finally, there is a huge misconception that mainline pilots do not want to fly anything less than 100 seats. This is mostly incorrect. Yes, in the early and mid 90's many guys did not want to be bothered with the small jets. This was a very foolish outlook and all Pilots are currently paying the price for this lack of foresight.

More recently DAL only increased to 76 seats with a BK 1113 motion - which most Pilots were very upset with. Currently most DAL Pilots are aware of the importance of Scope and while we will probably never get back 50 and 70 seat flying I doubt we are foolish enough to give one more inch on Scope. Some guys think we can bring back the 76 seat flying to mainline - I am not sure about this it would be nice.


Scoop

 

While you bring up interesting points, I must disagree with several things. I take exception that scope is impossible to put back into the bottle, so to speak. That was the entire point of the article at the beginning of this post. Fuel prices have rendered the 50 seaters obsolete. I can only speak for my own airline, but I would bet my house that we will not sign a contract that doesn't have mainline pilots flying 90 seat RJ's. That leaves the 70's, and to be honest, the economics aren't really very good on those either. From what I hear, we have offered to fly those jets in house at market rates. I'm not on the negotiating committee, but that's a rumor I've heard several times.

I think what you are advocating is already happening in the airline industry. If you look at the new rest rules, the regional pilots were far and away the biggest beneficiaries. Major airlines contracts are as restrictive as the new rules (if not more so) in most cases. Hopefully those rules, combined with the new set of FO standards coming in a couple of years, will tip the scales and make the outsourcing of higher paying major jobs less attractive.

You must also remember that we are not solely focused on the regional problem. There is a real and full-scale attack on our international flying as well with alliances like Death Star and OneWorld. Look no further than the Aer Lingus debacle to see the danger we face.

Lastly, from my perspective, I STRONGLY disagree that a certain national union has ignored the plight of the regionals. From where I sit, it seems the opposite problem is occurring. Just my .02

 

LOL
Bows head in shame. Sorry

 

You CAN bring the 76 flying back to mainline. Simply don't vote yes on any contract that doesn't include it. Personally, I will vote NO on any contract that doesn't bring 70 seaters back to mainline, or see them all parked. I'm confident the majority of my colleagues feel the same.

As a point of interest, back in the 90's when we voted to allow the 50 seaters to go to the regionals, it wasn't as simplistic as just "not wanting to be bothered" with small jets. I remember the meeting well. Our (moron) Master Chairman at the time presented us with the following: We could either order a bunch of 777's for expansion, or a bunch of 50 seaters, but we wouldn't get both. The money simply wasn't there. Well, we chose the 777's. How many 777's did we order since that meeting? 0. We were totally scammed. Hindsight being 20/20, we made a bad choice.

 

Guys...as block30 pointed out. This thread is running the risk of becomming a serious yet civil discussion about legitiment aviation matters. Please be careful.

 

The regional airline industry, ever since the dawn of the RJ, has been a time-limited idea. These airlines do absolutely nothing on their own, they have no actual product that the provide to the end consumer. All they do is act as a means to reduce cost and responsibility for the mainline carrier. There is a point where it can be done cheaper at mainline than at a regional, and as their costs grows, these two come together. Once they do, the regionals are done. There is no "new business model" that is going to save them.

It is a crooked idea meant to screw labor and I'm glad its failing.

 

Hey... Don't get mad and accuse me of slinging insults just because the truth hurts.

Too vs To, this is subjective to the writer, but come to think of it you have a great point. I should have used "too", that way I would have properly emphasized "greedy". Thanks for your suggestion.

 

Tushay. So... What I said earlier is correct.

Thanks again.

 

OK, this I cannot let slide...

Tushay? Is that some special tush holiday? Or Canadian...She's got a nice tush, eh?

I think you meant Touche'. It's of French origin, so blame them for the wacky spelling.

Grammar police out!

 

No. What you said earlier was ignorant. I just explained it to you. I won't bother again