Airline Pilot Central Forums - No Pay Raise for RAH FOs

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- Regional (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/)

- - No Pay Raise for RAH FOs (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/66348-no-pay-raise-rah-fos.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1159678)

Our 190s are mainline too. If you havent noticed they say FRONTIER on the side and make no mention of express and we don't fly them for any other legacy becasuse we can't.

We pay for the fuel, crew, MX, leases, gates, landing fees, and everything else that comes with hauling a passenger, there is nothing Fixed Fee about the 190 operation.

In our eyes its a MAIN LINE operation so we should be paid MAIN LINE rates.

hmm, I agree with you once again! We got so many people here at Eagle all concerned about 190s because "Republic" operates them without truly understanding how the whole ordeal works. I doubt you guys will get JetBlue rates since the Airbus rates @ Frontier lag JetBlue by an average of $15 an hour. I hope you guys get it but we have to see what AMR does first and then what happens with Frontier!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1159678)

No, they're not mainline and neither are you. You were hired by and fly for a regional airline. Big difference between being hired by a major airline. Just because someone forgot to paint "Express" next to the Frontier logo, doesn't make you a mainline pilot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor (Post 1159717)

maybe one day I can big boy pilot like you and be a "guppy gear slinger".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor (Post 1159717)

You hurt my feelings:(

Wow. I'm surprised it took until page two for Zooropa to stick his dirty nose in here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoooropa (Post 1159565)

Devils advocate....

Why not sign an LOA for the new FO rates (company ask) in exchange for __________ (union ask)?

You already know (or you should at least know) that we tried that already and were rejected soundly. So trying to reason with these people went nowhere. What would you have done?

Quote:

Surely someone on property has come to the realization that the NMB might not release you and the company might not give in to your every demand. I remember a lot of people claiming that a strike would occur by Christmas 2011.

Yes, some of us might have been a little eager with their positions. So what? We're prepared. We can't control the NMB, but neither can RAH. It's amazing how some people don't think that much of us, but when we do try to improve our station, we're told to sit in our place. Well, which one is it?

Quote:

I keep hearing "strike" and "jet blue rates", but no one is talking about the parking of aircraft and pay cuts at other FFD carriers.

Nice job pressing the arguments put forth by management. Not our problem. If a company can't do business and pay its people a living wage, maybe it doesn't deserve to be in business.

Quote:

I wish you luck with your negotiations, but i have to ask, will you still be patting yourself on the back for turning down a pay raise if/when you find yourself in the same spot this time next year? No sections TA'd, no closer to release (there is no correlation between time spent in mediation and release, some groups have been released very early like the spirit pilots while others have been in mediation for years like the AA FA's), eagle decimated (you saw they are closing the rock, right?), pinnacle pay cuts, $3.30+ a gallon fuel.....

Challenging times. I wonder if your E-Board and NC have allowed expectations to get so unrealistic for such a prolonged period of time that they have backed themselves (and the membership) into a corner.

You all appear to be waiting for the "perfect" deal. Unfortunately, those deals do not exist. Often, by the time this realization occurs, even an "ok" has already sailed away into the sunset.

So, let me see if I have this right. The company has made a single offer: No changes to work rules, Pinnacle +2 percent for FOs and no changes in Captain book rates. There has been no budging on their side. You know our book rates. Are you claiming that we should simply accept their offer because that's been the best thing to come along in five years? Am I hearing you correctly? Or has my peabrain RJ-pilot intellect failed to grasp some item of significance that you were trying to impart?

Quote:

The union's sole attempt at creating leverage where there is none is the "don't work here" campaign. This may dissuade the lateral move "regional to regional" guys but you will never convince a flight instructor to turn down the job.

Again, I would love for you guys to get JetBlue +1 tomorrow, but from the outside looking in it appears that you guys are exactly where you were back in October 2007. In other words, you have achieved nothing in almost five years.

I could state the obvious by counting the number of people required to perform a dance popular in South America, but I fear the point would be lost. What I will say is this: When it comes to matters of trade unionism, responses or advice from you or your brethren is neither solicited nor appreciated. I'd rather you keep sneering at me from afar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoooropa (Post 1159565)

Devils advocate....

Why not sign an LOA for the new FO rates (company ask) in exchange for __________ (union ask)?

Surely someone on property has come to the realization that the NMB might not release you and the company might not give in to your every demand. I remember a lot of people claiming that a strike would occur by Christmas 2011.

I keep hearing "strike" and "jet blue rates", but no one is talking about the parking of aircraft and pay cuts at other FFD carriers.

I wish you luck with your negotiations, but i have to ask, will you still be patting yourself on the back for turning down a pay raise if/when you find yourself in the same spot this time next year? No sections TA'd, no closer to release (there is no correlation between time spent in mediation and release, some groups have been released very early like the spirit pilots while others have been in mediation for years like the AA FA's), eagle decimated (you saw they are closing the rock, right?), pinnacle pay cuts, $3.30+ a gallon fuel.....

Challenging times. I wonder if your E-Board and NC have allowed expectations to get so unrealistic for such a prolonged period of time that they have backed themselves (and the membership) into a corner.

You all appear to be waiting for the "perfect" deal. Unfortunately, those deals do not exist. Often, by the time this realization occurs, even an "ok" has already sailed away into the sunset.

The union's sole attempt at creating leverage where there is none is the "don't work here" campaign. This may dissuade the lateral move "regional to regional" guys but you will never convince a flight instructor to turn down the job.

Again, I would love for you guys to get JetBlue +1 tomorrow, but from the outside looking in it appears that you guys are exactly where you were back in October 2007. In other words, you have achieved nothing in almost five years.

Once again, a F9 pilot chimes in knowing very little about what we are asking from the company. Yes, JetBlue pay rates are our starting point for the 190. We are very in tune with the fact that most of our revenue comes from FFD flying. Our expectations are in line with that. Personally, I want what my peers at Skywest, Expressjet, Horizon, and Eagle (pre-bankruptcy) have. Cancellation pay, trip/duty rigs, fair payrates, realistic scheduling & duty rules, vacancy rules that respect seniority. We've made this management team filthy rich over the years. A better contract would be a nice way of saying thank you, and as proven by our negotiating team, will not break the bank.

Instead of criticizing us, why don't you support your fellow pilots in attempting to raise he bar for this industry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1159678)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sticky (Post 1159722)

maybe one day I can big boy pilot like you and be a "guppy gear slinger".

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1159723)

You hurt my feelings:(

3 Quick Questions-

1. What Company name is on your company ID?
2. What Compnay does your paycheck come from / say?
3. What company do you use/claim when jumpseating?

Not wanting to 'hurt feelings' :mad: here; just curious about the answers.

Thanks
:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloudwarrior (Post 1159742)

I have 3 quick just as relevant questions for you-

1. How tall are you?
2. Whats your favorite color?
3. What did you have for breakfast this morning?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloudwarrior (Post 1159742)

Well damn thanks for pointing this out. My badge says Shuttle America, my Airplane says United Express, my pay check says Shuttle America. For 6 years here I was thinking I worked for Republic Airways, guess I'm goign to have to do some serious research and figure out who I really work for!

Look man I'm not going to get into a ****ing match with you on this thread over what is mainline and what isn't who got screwed in the intergration and who didn't, who bought who and who didn't. There are hundreds of threads and thousands of posts with Frontier and RAH pilots goign at each others throats. If you want to flex ur muscels go dig one of them up, that hasn't been locked and I'll go blows with you. Frankly I'm over it and I am welcoming F9 pilots with open arms and hoping nothing but the best for them and us.

For now I challenge you this. Give me one example of how the 190s are being utilized as a FIXED FEE FOR DEPARTURE. Take your time and state a fact NOT an unfounded oppinion.

I have for thee these questions three.
1) What is your quest?
2) What is your favorite color?
3) What is the airspeed velocity of a swallow?