PNCL CH11 = 9L pilots are FO forever?
 

With the Bloch award quotas on the 900, 367 900CA slots will have to be held by XJ/9E pilots. ATL900 CA/FO who can't hold 900 anymore will bump into the 200, pushing out the recent saab transition guys. There might 2-5% 9L pilots at the top of the seniority list who can hold a few overflow quota spots in JFK, but the vast majority will never be senior enough to ever hold CA again unless the company eventually gets more aircraft. If 9E loses any significant amount of 200's, then we will be back at the 200 quota as well and all 200CA spots will be reserved for 9E/XJ.

That's correct.

You are forgetting the fences are only place for 5 years after SLI award. So while you are correct, for the most part Colgan FO's will be stuck at FO for awhile, after 5 years everything opens up. Read the award if you dont believe me.

Its been close to a year since the SLI so we have 4 more years to go until all the fences/quota's come down.

Bankrupt U.S. airline owes Crown Corp. $690M - CBC Business Bankrupt U.S. airline owes Crown Corp. $690M - Business - CBC News

The Q400s are heading to another United operator.....

Trust me, 4 more years at PNCL will feel like a lifetime

Tragic news. I feel horrible.

Those q400s are headed to Skywest. But good old Jerry Atkin didn't want us pilots to come with him how does that make you feel? Oh but you will be given preferential interviews I am sure .

Who is the other united operator?

"Undisclosed."

Bankrupt U.S. airline owes Crown Corp. $690M - Business - CBC News

GoJets???????

Skywest maybe? ExpressJet, TSA,?

None of these places have the ability to start flying Q400 in the next few months unless they buy a certificate with a Q400 program, it could be RAH. One would assumer that SKW (if acquire a Horizon or another Q400 operator) will try to challenge for it. But it sure seems like Delta by controlling Pinnacle told United to go screw themselves.

It's unknown where the Q's are going... Skywest is certainly a possibility, though.

Could be CommutAir. They already operate the smaller Dash 8 for United.

9L pilots wouldn't exist by the end of the year without the SLI. It could have been worse. Can't upgrade at an airline that doesn't exist.

This is the new regional airline reality. As aircraft shuffle between carriers, there will be a contingent of senior pilots who will hold onto their seat, and simply have a QOL change as the fluctuations come and go (at each airline). There will be junior pilots, who either through furlough or by choice, move airline to airline, following the aircraft indefinately. They will never get a chance to accure seniority and upgrade.

My guess would be Skywest or Commutair....

Bedford has said on multiple occaisons he wants nothing to do with props and is going to park the remaining Qs for Lynx soon.

This is true. Please quit now. Thanks.

DONT QUIT! Wait for the furlough and collect from the G-man.

If you will not get furloughed and don't want to be an FO forever - QUIT!

Perfect example why the union needs to make sure this time we bid positions we are willing to go to , then a voluntary furlough option, then everything else.

Someone explain to me how Commutair would possibly finance this. They couldnt even sustain the Q-300s. They were supposed to get more but that was quickly scrapped.

Pure BS on your part!

Does anyonw know approximately how many 9L captains are in this position? Looks like the most junior 9e captain is early 07 hire vs mid 09 for 9L.

I give the airline career one more year to improve, or show signs of improving. By improving I mean people hiring, upgrading, and not going bankrupt left and right laying people off. If not, I take my free ATP and bounce. Good luck to PNCL guys and gals.

I've been saying the same thing since 2005.

Good luck guys.

I'll tell ya lately it feels like this industry is nothing but a dance at the bottom of seniority lists. As flying shifts there is no career progression anymore.

Anyone heard anything on when they will start giving the FO's ATP's? They better get rolling if the deadline is next year.

If I remember the Bloch award right, the totals are based on a certain number of captains per airplane. The quotas will be reduced as planes are parked. And lucky for the Colgan pilots, the Pinnacle numbers were artificially low. There will always be a handful of left seat spots available for the old Colgan pilots.

This is going to stir the pot a bit, but I feel a need to point out the irony. In the months since the Bloch award was published, I have not heard many Colgan pilots complain about the quotas. Rarely did I read how it was unfair that Colgan pilots were upgrading before the more senior pilots from Pinnacle and Mesaba. We got to hear a lot about how the Q400s were the future of the airline though. Now the tables are turned and suddenly the complaining starts. Is it unfair, of course it is. But it was also unfair for the last 9 months. This industry sucks, that's all there is to it.

I'll bet they will wait and see how many downgrades there will be. Why train FOs who will be on the street soon?

I don't see how we can afford the amount of training necessary to move everyone over. I honestly feel like 11-09 was a big reason we went bankrupt. The amount of training proposed will make 11-09 look like childs play. Aren't we looking at 10x the training events?

Join the party boys!

No doubt management will plead the training cost case to the bankruptcy court to reduce the cost of realignment. Does anyone know the past precedent set concerning (out of) inverse seniority furloughs? I suppose I should try googling that for myself.

No complaints from me. It's not the end of the world. I got two type ratings and almost two thousand hours of turbine PIC and now I'll be a jet FO but at least my QOL will skyrocket. I would have never imagined I would have the opportunity to hold 16 to 18 days off and it looks like I'm about to based on current PBS awards I've been looking at. I'm thankful to have a job and most importantly I'm thankful to have my health. Life's a roller coaster.

I agree. I think they'd rather pay people to sit at home for a few months and see how things shake out rather than train someone displaced upwards of 2 or 3 times before eventually being furloughed anyway. It's sadly the cheapest option.

If I remember correctly when Mesaba went Bankrupt in 2005' the Union and the company negotiated a huge multi class bid in return for credit on the savings in training going to the pilots. Saved on cost and also you knew right from the start what your fate was. Correct me if I'm wrong on the XJ sham bankruptcy. I would imagine the same will happen here. To maximize the savings on training in a MCB Pinnacle needs Delta to show their cards on the CRJ200. Probably the only missing piece. So maybe sooner then later we will know how many planes we're actually losing?? ://

amazing how for decades when airlines parked airplanes, they must have included the cost of training events.

now with "regionals", they wait full authority to park airplanes and furlough out of seniority to "save money". I really hope this doesn't happen.

9L FOs (and everyone else at that airline) would be on the street and without a job if it weren't for the Pinnacle (and Mesaba) pilots.

So they might be FOs forever, but they have a job. And that job is on the backs of many many Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots who will be losing theirs because of Colgan.

The current "Seniority" list is a damn scam anyways. I really hope they throw it out.

Unless you think seniority means a guy 2 years your junior who took the job at a bottom-feeder prop outfit should be able to take your seat and kick you to the street while getting a pay raise in the process.