Can we fix our problem?
10-27-2006 | 08:10 PM
#11
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,755
Likes: 6
Ultimately it is a question of supply and demand. The fact that regional airlines are having to go as low as a few hundred hours of total time means that the pool is, if not drying up, surely getting pretty shallow.
I was hired at my current regional airline with about 1500 hours. That was the median in my new-hire class. I don't know what it is now, but the chatter on the line is that they are hiring a fair number with 500 or few hours.
I now have in the mid-3000s of total time and no ATP. I do have the JAA "Frozen ATPL" that KoruPilot speaks of. I agree that it is largely useless in the cockpit of a transport category aircraft. That said, it was not easy to get and the requirement acts as a kind of filter. And the knowledge is useful to be sure, but no substitute for experience and good judgement. That said, it sure made the FAA written look like a joke.
I also have the FAA written ATP test done. I will not voluntarily expose myself to another FAA checkride and jeapordy testing event in a piston twin ever again I hope, therefore I will wait until my upgrade comes.
I don't know the solution to the problem here either, except for greater pilot unity and a major effort by various unions to educate their pilots and the public. I am not a militant union member, but they can help to counteract negative forces from within the company. Many pilots fear for their jobs and careers when they are young and allow abuse to become systematic because they don't want to compromise their chance at the heavy metal later in their careers.
If ALPA were to focus on fixing what is wrong with the regionals with regards to their unique issues it would really help I think. Obviously, pay is one of the major issues and the fact that there are contracts out there which allow for professional pilots to earn below the poverty level is shameful. ALPA can help by simply publicising this fact.
I was hired at my current regional airline with about 1500 hours. That was the median in my new-hire class. I don't know what it is now, but the chatter on the line is that they are hiring a fair number with 500 or few hours.
I now have in the mid-3000s of total time and no ATP. I do have the JAA "Frozen ATPL" that KoruPilot speaks of. I agree that it is largely useless in the cockpit of a transport category aircraft. That said, it was not easy to get and the requirement acts as a kind of filter. And the knowledge is useful to be sure, but no substitute for experience and good judgement. That said, it sure made the FAA written look like a joke.
I also have the FAA written ATP test done. I will not voluntarily expose myself to another FAA checkride and jeapordy testing event in a piston twin ever again I hope, therefore I will wait until my upgrade comes.
I don't know the solution to the problem here either, except for greater pilot unity and a major effort by various unions to educate their pilots and the public. I am not a militant union member, but they can help to counteract negative forces from within the company. Many pilots fear for their jobs and careers when they are young and allow abuse to become systematic because they don't want to compromise their chance at the heavy metal later in their careers.
If ALPA were to focus on fixing what is wrong with the regionals with regards to their unique issues it would really help I think. Obviously, pay is one of the major issues and the fact that there are contracts out there which allow for professional pilots to earn below the poverty level is shameful. ALPA can help by simply publicising this fact.
10-28-2006 | 07:26 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
Ultimately it is a question of supply and demand. The fact that regional airlines are having to go as low as a few hundred hours of total time means that the pool is, if not drying up, surely getting pretty shallow.
I was hired at my current regional airline with about 1500 hours. That was the median in my new-hire class. I don't know what it is now, but the chatter on the line is that they are hiring a fair number with 500 or few hours.
I now have in the mid-3000s of total time and no ATP. I do have the JAA "Frozen ATPL" that KoruPilot speaks of. I agree that it is largely useless in the cockpit of a transport category aircraft. That said, it was not easy to get and the requirement acts as a kind of filter. And the knowledge is useful to be sure, but no substitute for experience and good judgement. That said, it sure made the FAA written look like a joke.
I also have the FAA written ATP test done. I will not voluntarily expose myself to another FAA checkride and jeapordy testing event in a piston twin ever again I hope, therefore I will wait until my upgrade comes.
I don't know the solution to the problem here either, except for greater pilot unity and a major effort by various unions to educate their pilots and the public. I am not a militant union member, but they can help to counteract negative forces from within the company. Many pilots fear for their jobs and careers when they are young and allow abuse to become systematic because they don't want to compromise their chance at the heavy metal later in their careers.
If ALPA were to focus on fixing what is wrong with the regionals with regards to their unique issues it would really help I think. Obviously, pay is one of the major issues and the fact that there are contracts out there which allow for professional pilots to earn below the poverty level is shameful. ALPA can help by simply publicising this fact.
I was hired at my current regional airline with about 1500 hours. That was the median in my new-hire class. I don't know what it is now, but the chatter on the line is that they are hiring a fair number with 500 or few hours.
I now have in the mid-3000s of total time and no ATP. I do have the JAA "Frozen ATPL" that KoruPilot speaks of. I agree that it is largely useless in the cockpit of a transport category aircraft. That said, it was not easy to get and the requirement acts as a kind of filter. And the knowledge is useful to be sure, but no substitute for experience and good judgement. That said, it sure made the FAA written look like a joke.
I also have the FAA written ATP test done. I will not voluntarily expose myself to another FAA checkride and jeapordy testing event in a piston twin ever again I hope, therefore I will wait until my upgrade comes.
I don't know the solution to the problem here either, except for greater pilot unity and a major effort by various unions to educate their pilots and the public. I am not a militant union member, but they can help to counteract negative forces from within the company. Many pilots fear for their jobs and careers when they are young and allow abuse to become systematic because they don't want to compromise their chance at the heavy metal later in their careers.
If ALPA were to focus on fixing what is wrong with the regionals with regards to their unique issues it would really help I think. Obviously, pay is one of the major issues and the fact that there are contracts out there which allow for professional pilots to earn below the poverty level is shameful. ALPA can help by simply publicising this fact.
I'm sorry - I don't see your point. What exactly is wrong in a free-market economy with the hiring mins / starting pay at the regionals?
I have Airman that earn below the poverty level. They want to deploy to Iraq for the tax breaks. IMHO, thats the shame not some RJ pilot making 19K.
-LAFF
10-28-2006 | 07:34 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 722
Likes: 0
I'm sorry - I don't see your point. What exactly is wrong in a free-market economy with the hiring mins / starting pay at the regionals?
I have Airman that earn below the poverty level. They want to deploy to Iraq for the tax breaks. IMHO, thats the shame not some RJ pilot making 19K.
-LAFF
I have Airman that earn below the poverty level. They want to deploy to Iraq for the tax breaks. IMHO, thats the shame not some RJ pilot making 19K.
-LAFF
What's even worse than what you are saying about the military guys pushing for a deployment, is that just like in the airline industry even those guys, putting their life on the line for our country, are taking pay cuts!!
The more and more people I talk to from every industry, even guys in mgmt., you will realize that nationally ALL WAGES ARE GOING DOWN IN EVERY AREA OF OUR ECONOMY!!
There are guys out there that work for "company x", you fill in the blank, that are sitting there having the same conversations we have on a daily basis. It's a scary world out there right now, but somehow the rich just keep getting richer and that divide between the rich and poor is expanding at exponential rates. Who do we blame for that, well i could get started on that one, but this isnt a politicial forum, all i will say is look at the guy sitting in the oval office.
10-28-2006 | 07:45 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
LAFF,
What's even worse than what you are saying about the military guys pushing for a deployment, is that just like in the airline industry even those guys, putting their life on the line for our country, are taking pay cuts!!
The more and more people I talk to from every industry, even guys in mgmt., you will realize that nationally ALL WAGES ARE GOING DOWN IN EVERY AREA OF OUR ECONOMY!!
There are guys out there that work for "company x", you fill in the blank, that are sitting there having the same conversations we have on a daily basis. It's a scary world out there right now, but somehow the rich just keep getting richer and that divide between the rich and poor is expanding at exponential rates. Who do we blame for that, well i could get started on that one, but this isnt a politicial forum, all i will say is look at the guy sitting in the oval office.
What's even worse than what you are saying about the military guys pushing for a deployment, is that just like in the airline industry even those guys, putting their life on the line for our country, are taking pay cuts!!
The more and more people I talk to from every industry, even guys in mgmt., you will realize that nationally ALL WAGES ARE GOING DOWN IN EVERY AREA OF OUR ECONOMY!!
There are guys out there that work for "company x", you fill in the blank, that are sitting there having the same conversations we have on a daily basis. It's a scary world out there right now, but somehow the rich just keep getting richer and that divide between the rich and poor is expanding at exponential rates. Who do we blame for that, well i could get started on that one, but this isnt a politicial forum, all i will say is look at the guy sitting in the oval office.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aidjOKAw2E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9sa7...elated&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBKYizGoYQg
-LAFF
10-28-2006 | 07:49 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,228
Likes: 0
From: FO - 757/767
Here is the big thing, enrollments are down, pilot pools are down. If you needed an ATP to apply the company would have to pay more because they would not attract enough applicants if they didn't. More by how much? Who knows. But when a kid can buy a seat in an airliner for $80,000 the message the airline receives is that they could practically charge for the job and the pilot would work for nothing. And most of the time they are right. Johnathan Orienstien once said if his classes are full he is paying too much and as much of a jack ass as that makes him sound, he's right. The ATP to apply forced by the pilots in the contract is an interesting therory at the least.
10-28-2006 | 08:37 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
10-28-2006 | 09:18 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 722
Likes: 0
Amazing how there are so many video's out there either with him walking himself into being berated, or giving people so much material to rip him apart. Ladies and gentlemen, that's our president, makes me so proud to be an American!!
10-28-2006 | 06:28 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 506
Likes: 0
From: rj 700/900
I'm sorry - I don't see your point. What exactly is wrong in a free-market economy with the hiring mins / starting pay at the regionals?
I have Airman that earn below the poverty level. They want to deploy to Iraq for the tax breaks. IMHO, thats the shame not some RJ pilot making 19K.
-LAFF
I have Airman that earn below the poverty level. They want to deploy to Iraq for the tax breaks. IMHO, thats the shame not some RJ pilot making 19K.
-LAFF
Last edited by bla bla bla; 10-28-2006 at 06:40 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
