I completely agree with your post but i firmly believe that the probation period has been used inappropriately.

 

I'm a tier III guy. The only F9 pilots behind be on the master list are the ones hired in the last year. I'll never touch a F9 Airbus. Partly due to seniority, partly by choice. I hope to be long gone by the time the fence comes down anyways.

As far as defending probationary pilots goes, I'll say that the last two administrations have a good track record of sticking up for new guys. To the best of their abilities.

 

The union will have your back. I'd be more worries about paying your bills on our awful first year pay. Hard to build up a slush fund. Good bees is you can get on at Lowes and not lose too much coin.

 

Probationary Frontier pilots don't (or didn't under FAPA) pay dues. They could file grievances, they were entitled to representation but not SBA. Is that pretty much what 357's probationary pilots get?

 

You would need to ask the 357 the exact number, but the majority of F9 pilots appear to be paying Fair Share/Core Fees as required. By doing so, those paying the fees are electing not to become a member of the Teamsters Local 357, but are paying that, in theory,are related to negotiating collective bargaining agreements, representing unit members in grievance and arbitration proceedings and administering collective bargaining agreements.

Per the Teamsters Local 357 POLICY AND PROCEDURE ON FAIR SHARE/CORE FEE:


IBT is not relieved of the their obligations to represent all employees fairly, in good faith, and without discrimination.

So it really doesn't matter "How many F9 pilots have joined and are paying dues." What matters is that the IBT is the EXCLUSIVE bargaining representative for all pilots under the RAH umbrella right now and Bolo is alluding to the fact that they, so far, have done a very poor job in the eyes of F9 pilots. Especially when you consider that the Teamsters have taken actions that are directly opposed to the interests of Frontier pilots, a few of which are actually full fledged members.

 

Emma,

I would tune out the F9 guys in this thread. They just love to jump at a chance to badmouth IBT and will always dislike them - no matter what they do. Their opinions of IBT has absolutely nothing to do with your question. Historically, when an agreement is reached after a strike, it includes a stipulation to give any 'fired' probationary pilots their jobs back with no penalty.

I strongly feel our union does very little to look out for the junior pilots on the list, however I don't think for a moment an agreement would be reached that would leave probationary pilots on the street. I really wouldn't sweat it. Besides, I doubt we will actually get the chance to walk, and if we do, it would be for a matter of hours. Supposedly, Delta has threatened our fixed-fee flying contract if the company cancels even one flight due to labor unrest. I don't see our management, as incompetent as they are, allowing our Delta contract to be in jeopardy over this. It would hurt their pocketbooks too much.

Cheers,

SR

 

Say what you will about BB's management abilities, but after the contract/strike is behind RAH, they will be looking to get back to business as quickly as possible.

Yes - they will likely fire you for not showing up and for not crossing the picket line.
Yes - they will almost certainly take you back immediately after the contract is signed.They have $30K or more wrapped up in you, common sense say they will take you back.

Here is the real question -- when you are directly asked the question on any application or in any interview, "Have you ever been fired from a job?" do you really want to have to do that dance?

Be smart -- Stay away from RAH until this thing is over. Every pilot that goes somewhere else right now is bringing RAH management closer to offering a reasonable contract. The now 5 year expired contract at RAH is one of the many things keeping the industry wages and qol down right now. Do the right thing and apply elsewhere. Going to work at RAH right now is supporting Management and hurting the RAH pilots and this industry.

 

Yes, with two exceptions.

First, new hires are required to pay the initiation fee and dues (or association fee if they choose not to be a member.) I don't know which is the norm in the airline industry, but it is (was) good that FAPA did not require dues payments from probationary pilots.

Secondly, the RAH contract specifically states that pilots can be fired without cause. Management actually did fire 125 probationary Saab guys back in 2001 rather than incur the training costs of furloughing in seniority order.

Granted, those are pretty significant exceptions, but beyond that, it is pretty much the same.

That being said, I reiterate that a back to work agreement post strike is outside the scope of the probation language in the contract. While I am no longer at RAH, when I was there I worked pretty closely with PG & co. I have no reason to believe they would even consider an agreement that did not include reinstatement of any probationary pilots fired for not crossing the line.

So in answer to the OP: No, under no circumstances should you ever cross a picket line for any reason. I cannot say with absolute certainty you will be reinstated through a back to work agreement if taken hostage, but based on my knowledge of the EXCO at RAH I am as close to absolutely certain as I can get. But crossing the line and keeping your job would be infinitely worse than honoring the line and losing it.

But also keep in mind, before you show up for class, that most everyone who is at RAH now is trying to get out. I was a very senior captain there until I bailed a year ago. I took the first offer I got, with a 60% pay cut, and have not for a minute regretted my decision.

There are rumors of furlough where I am now and my head will certainly be on the block if that happens. I would rather be furloughed from here than be a senior captain there. YMMV

 

Hetmen, very well spoken. I hope you do not get furloughed and congratulations on getting out of RAH. I have been furloughed twice and once out of seniority which totally sucked and was total BS.
The majority of the people have had good advice and really the best answers seem to be: 1) Stay away from RAH until this mess is resolved. 2) If you cannot stay away DO NOT CROSS THE PICKET LINE IF THEY STRIKE!

BOLO

 

Emma,

I can tell you with certainty that RAH management will not hesitate to pull the plug on probationary employees if a strike is called, and it would not surprise me in the least to see them use the threat of going after probationary employees' training contracts as leverage against the pilot group. I do not know the language that the company is using in the most recent version of the training contract, and as others have said, it is highly unlikely that the contract could be enforced if you are involuntarily separated. However, I don't think it's illegal for the company to threaten to enforce the training contract, and RAH could use this sort of threat to try and keep a few airplanes in the air.

As for 9/11 and the subsequent dismissal of 125 pilots out of seniority, the company did not attempt to enforce the training contracts. It is relevant to note, however, that the elimination of Saab flying was planned long before 9/11 ever happened, and therefore the firings that took place were part of a calculated effort to grow the company and not necessary to save Chautauqua, as Bedford continues to claim. These are the sort of tactics the company have used and will use in order to advance its interests.

As others (including, yes, Bolo) have rightly said, stay clear of here until the dust settles.