What is Capt Sully taking about ?
05-25-2012 | 12:33 AM
#81
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From: Right Seat
I think he is correct in saying majors are safer than regionals. It may not be a huge margin, but consider that regionals operate up to 7 legs a day, and statistically, the most dangerous part of any given flight is the approach and landing. By operating more take-offs and landings per day, your safety margin is decreased by a given percentage.
Also consider the flight crews of regionals. We have extremely low-time pilots operating jets in a fast paced, multiple leg, quick turn environment. This type of environment, along with low pay, can also degrade crew morale and easily lead to fatigue and complacency issues.
Its also been my experience that regional crews are slightly less professional than crews at majors. While this is largely based on the individual crew, I've seen more questionable practices on regionals' jumpseats than on majors'.
I'm not trying to degrade the regionals. There are many regional pilots that are tremendously competent and professional, but from a pure statistics standpoint, Sully is correct.
Also consider the flight crews of regionals. We have extremely low-time pilots operating jets in a fast paced, multiple leg, quick turn environment. This type of environment, along with low pay, can also degrade crew morale and easily lead to fatigue and complacency issues.
Its also been my experience that regional crews are slightly less professional than crews at majors. While this is largely based on the individual crew, I've seen more questionable practices on regionals' jumpseats than on majors'.
I'm not trying to degrade the regionals. There are many regional pilots that are tremendously competent and professional, but from a pure statistics standpoint, Sully is correct.
Second, flight experience is lower at a regional. If you get hired at a major, then you probably have several thousand hours experience in a jet flying in all conditions. Even with the 1500 hour rule, at a regional you will get new hires that have all their time in a 172 making trips around the pattern. Majors will always have pilots with more experience.
Last, the regionals are all about cost, so all you get is the minimum amount of training and sim sessions required by the FAA. Nothing extra whatsoever.
Despite being employed by a regional, I can agree that the majors are safer.
05-25-2012 | 03:51 AM
#82
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As a crew, you are only as safe as your last flight. Everyone points to colgan 3407 and the Comair accident in Lexington as such terrible things...and they are tragedies, but lets not forget that Major and Legacy carriers in this country and others certainly have had their "tragedies" as well. Aviation is chocked full of accidents at ALL levels of aviation. Bad decisions that compromise safety and or lead to accidents have happened throughout the history of this business.
Having flown at two so called regional carriers (there is nothing regional about S5) is the safety culture less at these companies... maybe...sometimes... but I think the same could be said for Legacy carriers as well.... I mean... it wasn't a regional carrier who landed a wide body jet on a taxi way in ATL.
Having flown at two so called regional carriers (there is nothing regional about S5) is the safety culture less at these companies... maybe...sometimes... but I think the same could be said for Legacy carriers as well.... I mean... it wasn't a regional carrier who landed a wide body jet on a taxi way in ATL.
05-25-2012 | 04:10 AM
#83
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Compensation, QOL, experience??? I'd argue S5 is a regional in every sense, except aircraft weight, and some routes flown. These two items, however, are not as closely related to safety as experience and QOL. From a safety standpoint, S5 is a regional through and through.
05-25-2012 | 04:34 AM
#84
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Having flown at two so called regional carriers (there is nothing regional about S5) is the safety culture less at these companies... maybe...sometimes... but I think the same could be said for Legacy carriers as well.... I mean... it wasn't a regional carrier who landed a wide body jet on a taxi way in ATL.
The ONLY thing that separated those from a catastrophe was luck, NOT skill or experience, compensation, whatever.
It's been proven before, pilots in ALL spectrums of aviation at ALL experience levels can kill people with the same efficiency. Who they worked for and their experience level DIDN'T.
05-25-2012 | 04:47 AM
#85
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From: Volleyball Player
In flying, "almost" doesn't count (something I've said for years). You can probably turn around your same scenario and say that there are far more "almost" scenarios with regionals that we don't hear about. The NTSB and others gather data from many sources and make these conclusions.
05-25-2012 | 10:23 AM
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In flying, "almost" doesn't count (something I've said for years). You can probably turn around your same scenario and say that there are far more "almost" scenarios with regionals that we don't hear about. The NTSB and others gather data from many sources and make these conclusions.
And to turn around your scenario, you could say there's an incredible amount of "almost" scenarios with majors/legacies, LCC's, freight companies, whatever that we DON'T heard about as well.
Still stand by my point, the higher experienced pilots can kill people just as well as the lower experienced. Hasn't changed.
05-25-2012 | 11:39 AM
#87
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From: Doing what you do, for less.
Sure, OK. Remove the almost case, and insert AA in Colombia and LIT, feel better? The taxi way landings DIDN'T almost happen, they happened. Flaming out the 76 engines DIDN'T almost happen, it happened.
And to turn around your scenario, you could say there's an incredible amount of "almost" scenarios with majors/legacies, LCC's, freight companies, whatever that we DON'T heard about as well.
Still stand by my point, the higher experienced pilots can kill people just as well as the lower experienced. Hasn't changed.
And to turn around your scenario, you could say there's an incredible amount of "almost" scenarios with majors/legacies, LCC's, freight companies, whatever that we DON'T heard about as well.
Still stand by my point, the higher experienced pilots can kill people just as well as the lower experienced. Hasn't changed.
05-25-2012 | 12:03 PM
#88
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.......says an RJ FO?
Sorry, but ANYBODY that lives in a world where they believe that humans don't make mistakes regardless of experience level probably isn't that grounded in reality. Doesn't matter if it's aviation, the medical profession, law enforcement, whatever.
Last edited by xjtguy; 05-25-2012 at 12:19 PM.
05-25-2012 | 04:41 PM
#89
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From: Volleyball Player
Is anybody claiming that exactly? I don't think so, but on the other hand insurance companies, to whom the bottom line is most important, mandate experience requirements and assign rates in accordance with this. Who wants an inexperienced doctor that hasn't seen the "full range" of situations and manifestations? How about a surgeon? The list could go on and on. Sure, you might find an exceptional performer that does not have as much experience, but go back to the insurance aspect, it's been found to be the exception over time, not the rule.
05-26-2012 | 10:49 AM
#90
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insurance companies, to whom the bottom line is most important, mandate experience requirements and assign rates in accordance with this. Who wants an inexperienced doctor that hasn't seen the "full range" of situations and manifestations? How about a surgeon? The list could go on and on. Sure, you might find an exceptional performer that does not have as much experience, but go back to the insurance aspect, it's been found to be the exception over time, not the rule.
For EXACTLY the same reasons pilots kill people. One, or more safety layers of the system failed and they flat out screwed up. Regardless of their "full range" of experience.
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