Quality provided to Pax
11-01-2006, 11:46 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 584
Quality provided to Pax
Hi folks,
Something I've been wondering: To what extent is there a genuine difference in product quality between the good regionals (Skywest, etc)and the lousy ones (Mesa, etc). I'm asking in terms of...
Aircraft Mx
Crew training/quality
On time performance
Customer service to the mainline's pax
Aircraft cleanliness
etc, etc.
In other words, when CHQ starts flying for CAL, will pax notice a change in the product quality?
Something I've been wondering: To what extent is there a genuine difference in product quality between the good regionals (Skywest, etc)and the lousy ones (Mesa, etc). I'm asking in terms of...
Aircraft Mx
Crew training/quality
On time performance
Customer service to the mainline's pax
Aircraft cleanliness
etc, etc.
In other words, when CHQ starts flying for CAL, will pax notice a change in the product quality?
11-01-2006, 12:17 PM
#2
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
The differences are significant (and I've done both)...
Cleanliness. Brand X planes are gross and nasty inside, and the outsides are filthy enough that they look bad from a distance (except the brand new ones). Opened coffee packs are left in the lav to hide the smell.
Mx: Brand X planes often have failed APU's, and numerous other write-ups are left open as long as legally possible. Multiple write-ups create difficulties because the special MEL instructions for a given write-up don't necessarily account for the special instructions related to the OTHER 11 write-ups, so conflicts can be confusing.
FA's: FA's don't get paid that much anywway, so combine even less pay and horrible treatment... Brand X FA's often are REALLY dumb, non-hygenic, personality-challenged, lazy,etc. At my last airline it was literally embarrassing to be seen in public with many of our FA's.
Training: Brand X training was OK, but a little disorganized, when I went through. But about the time I left they were in such a crunch that they compressed the training to get people on line by running class 16 hours/day...no way that most folks are really going to learn anything in that kind of environment. Brand X pilot quality was OK, but they also hired 200 hour wonders, so the potential was there for gross inexperience or lack of judgment.
On-time: Brand x had a lot of self-induced delays...Mx or missing crew (FA's would just not come to work).
Customer Service: This is mostly up to te FA's...see above.
Cleanliness. Brand X planes are gross and nasty inside, and the outsides are filthy enough that they look bad from a distance (except the brand new ones). Opened coffee packs are left in the lav to hide the smell.
Mx: Brand X planes often have failed APU's, and numerous other write-ups are left open as long as legally possible. Multiple write-ups create difficulties because the special MEL instructions for a given write-up don't necessarily account for the special instructions related to the OTHER 11 write-ups, so conflicts can be confusing.
FA's: FA's don't get paid that much anywway, so combine even less pay and horrible treatment... Brand X FA's often are REALLY dumb, non-hygenic, personality-challenged, lazy,etc. At my last airline it was literally embarrassing to be seen in public with many of our FA's.
Training: Brand X training was OK, but a little disorganized, when I went through. But about the time I left they were in such a crunch that they compressed the training to get people on line by running class 16 hours/day...no way that most folks are really going to learn anything in that kind of environment. Brand X pilot quality was OK, but they also hired 200 hour wonders, so the potential was there for gross inexperience or lack of judgment.
On-time: Brand x had a lot of self-induced delays...Mx or missing crew (FA's would just not come to work).
Customer Service: This is mostly up to te FA's...see above.
11-01-2006, 01:07 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 49
Ditto to what Rickair said (Brand X...(cough, cough "Mesa"
)
For instance, most companies (such as SkyWest) have preventative MX. So, they're constantly being proactive to MX issues, versus a place like Mesa, which is reactive. HUGE difference between the two. SkyWest will attempt to fix the issue before it happens, versus Mesa, which waits for the issue to happen...then tries to fix it.
As Rickair pointed out, APU's are a prime example. I can look back on a 4-day trip and practically guarantee that, of the 7 aircraft I flew during that trip, roughly half had either no APU, or were running on a single pack (which is about the same in terms of discomfort). On the other hand, SkyWest (or any other carrier, for that matter) can look back on the same trip, having swapped the same amount of aircraft, and had fully functioning APU's and packs throughout the entirety. Both SkyWest and Mesa have the same APU's in their CRJ's, but SkyWest proactively deals with MX, while Mesa waits for the issue to become a problem.
For example, let's take a SkyWest plane, and a Mesa plane, both scheduled to depart ORD at 1300 on a sweltering 97 degree day.
1230 pm:
- SkyWest pax board a plane that's extremely cool and comfortable.
- Mesa pax board a silent airplane (meaning no APU) with cabin temp's already close to 100 degrees.
1253 pm:
- The SkyWest airplane pushes off the gate seven minutes early.
- Mesa crews, for the fourth time, are calling Op's for an air cart and GPU.
1335 pm:
- SkyWest is climbing through FL190...FA calls up the crew and says "hey guys, can you turn the AC down a bit, it's a little cool back here".
- The Mesa plane finally gets clearance for pushback, and cabin temps are at 103 degrees.
1347 pm:
- Currently number nine for departure, the Mesa FA calls up the crew and states that a lady in the back is dizzy and throwing-up due to the excessive heat.
1410 pm:
- The Mesa crew returns to the gate, deplanes the furious pax, and calls MX in attempts to fix the APU. MX is already fixing another faulty APU on a seperate airplane, and states that they can't get to their airplane for another hour.
1520 pm:
- Skywest arrives at their destination 13 minutes early
- Mesa cancels flight.
So, in answer to the original question...yes, pax do notice a difference in quality.
)For instance, most companies (such as SkyWest) have preventative MX. So, they're constantly being proactive to MX issues, versus a place like Mesa, which is reactive. HUGE difference between the two. SkyWest will attempt to fix the issue before it happens, versus Mesa, which waits for the issue to happen...then tries to fix it.
As Rickair pointed out, APU's are a prime example. I can look back on a 4-day trip and practically guarantee that, of the 7 aircraft I flew during that trip, roughly half had either no APU, or were running on a single pack (which is about the same in terms of discomfort). On the other hand, SkyWest (or any other carrier, for that matter) can look back on the same trip, having swapped the same amount of aircraft, and had fully functioning APU's and packs throughout the entirety. Both SkyWest and Mesa have the same APU's in their CRJ's, but SkyWest proactively deals with MX, while Mesa waits for the issue to become a problem.
For example, let's take a SkyWest plane, and a Mesa plane, both scheduled to depart ORD at 1300 on a sweltering 97 degree day.
1230 pm:
- SkyWest pax board a plane that's extremely cool and comfortable.
- Mesa pax board a silent airplane (meaning no APU) with cabin temp's already close to 100 degrees.
1253 pm:
- The SkyWest airplane pushes off the gate seven minutes early.
- Mesa crews, for the fourth time, are calling Op's for an air cart and GPU.
1335 pm:
- SkyWest is climbing through FL190...FA calls up the crew and says "hey guys, can you turn the AC down a bit, it's a little cool back here".
- The Mesa plane finally gets clearance for pushback, and cabin temps are at 103 degrees.
1347 pm:
- Currently number nine for departure, the Mesa FA calls up the crew and states that a lady in the back is dizzy and throwing-up due to the excessive heat.
1410 pm:
- The Mesa crew returns to the gate, deplanes the furious pax, and calls MX in attempts to fix the APU. MX is already fixing another faulty APU on a seperate airplane, and states that they can't get to their airplane for another hour.
1520 pm:
- Skywest arrives at their destination 13 minutes early
- Mesa cancels flight.
So, in answer to the original question...yes, pax do notice a difference in quality.
11-01-2006, 02:16 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 584
Thanks folks. This is stuff the traveling public needs to know. I know I've been meaning to educate my extended family on which regionals to fly and which to avoid.
Are there any other "consumer" data to support this as well? Like a list of all the pax complaints against United Express operated by SkyWest versus operated by Mesa??
Are there any other "consumer" data to support this as well? Like a list of all the pax complaints against United Express operated by SkyWest versus operated by Mesa??
Last edited by MikeB525; 11-01-2006 at 02:22 PM.
11-02-2006, 07:32 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by MikeB525
Are there any other "consumer" data to support this as well? Like a list of all the pax complaints against United Express operated by SkyWest versus operated by Mesa??
here's the link:
http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_...me_statistics/
Other than that, the Better Business Bureau can provide some fairly interesting information on filed complaints, etc.:
www.bbb.org
11-02-2006, 07:39 AM
#7
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Position: MD-11 F/O UPS
Posts: 175
For example, let's take a SkyWest plane, and a Mesa plane, both scheduled to depart ORD at 1300 on a sweltering 97 degree day.
I think I was on that flight--I'll never fly Mesa again. Even when it's free, I'll take a less convenient routing to avoid Mesa.
I think I was on that flight--I'll never fly Mesa again. Even when it's free, I'll take a less convenient routing to avoid Mesa.
11-02-2006, 11:11 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 584
Yea, here are the numbers from the governemnt:
(January 1 through Spetember 1 2006)
SkyWest average Departure Delay: 7 minutes
Mesa average departure delay: 14 minutes
SkyWest Cancelled: 1.73%
Mesa Cancelled: 3.18%
SkyWest late flights: 19.74%
Mesa late flights: 23.04%
Not much difference, but some.
(January 1 through Spetember 1 2006)
SkyWest average Departure Delay: 7 minutes
Mesa average departure delay: 14 minutes
SkyWest Cancelled: 1.73%
Mesa Cancelled: 3.18%
SkyWest late flights: 19.74%
Mesa late flights: 23.04%
Not much difference, but some.
11-02-2006, 01:25 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
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Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by MikeB525
Yea, here are the numbers from the governemnt:
(January 1 through Spetember 1 2006)
SkyWest average Departure Delay: 7 minutes
Mesa average departure delay: 14 minutes
SkyWest Cancelled: 1.73%
Mesa Cancelled: 3.18%
SkyWest late flights: 19.74%
Mesa late flights: 23.04%
Not much difference, but some.
(January 1 through Spetember 1 2006)
SkyWest average Departure Delay: 7 minutes
Mesa average departure delay: 14 minutes
SkyWest Cancelled: 1.73%
Mesa Cancelled: 3.18%
SkyWest late flights: 19.74%
Mesa late flights: 23.04%
Not much difference, but some.
Shockingly close, really.
Until you consider the incentives to operate that Mesa pilots have in thier contract. No xxl pay, avg block only.
SKYW pilots get paid extra to run a little late, and are protected in the event of a MX cancelation.
Even given those opposite spectrum financial incentives, Mesa still cancels almost twice as often as SKYW, leaves later, and blocks later. And Mesa crews have no ACARS, they call in thier own OOOI times. Imagine how bad the real numbers must be.
11-02-2006, 01:54 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD80
Posts: 1,111
Sorry I'd have to call Bull $hit on this thread. I've flown MESA many times and never have had problems except for the warm cabin problems while waiting on the ground, but this happens to all CRJs. Yes even skywest. As far as broken planes, it's not the company's fault, the CRJ is just a $hitty pax plane, wasn't designed for 10 flights a day.
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