The important thing to remember is that the rules are changing for a reason. The line had to be drawn. And by the way it needed to be moved to a more acceptable place. If regional airlines and truly motivated people did the right thing the govmt wouldn't have to step in and regulate it. Seems like when people get themselves in trouble by not doing the right thing, the regulation put in place to protect those people from doing it again can be somewhat overkill.

Bottom line is that the rule isn't going to be scaled back for you as the pilot because it's a little more challenging (not impossible) to build your experience.

Next thing you know you will have some heart issues that need to be addressed by surgery. You go looking for a good guy to do it and find that the success rate has fallen substantially because the surgeons were less experienced because they had trouble finding work initially. So the hospitals just felt bad for the guys and needed some peeps to fill in lowering their standards of the practice.

Hmmm...........sounds like a crappy scenario either way for some.

 

pilots struggling to find work due to experience requirements=airlines not finding pilots to fly their airplanes.
its a different way to say the same thing. the airlines wont let it happen. "plane and simple"

 

This. People can talk all day about the merits of requiring an FO to have an ATP/1500 hours for safety, etc., but the bottom line is that in one year or less the regional airline system will be in deep trouble. Who cares? Good? Regionals now provide more than half of all domestic lift.

Regionals have generally been hiring from between 500 and 1000 for years. They will find a way to do it again before Aug 2013.

 

Well said! Its not what everyone wants to hear but it is the truth. Deep pockets in DC and its an election year!!

 

Maybe one day when we people smarten up and start demanding what they are worth with the regionals have a tough time hiring.

There are WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY too many qualified guys on the streets waiting to come back and work for peanuts. By the time they use up all the furloughs and guys hiding in the cracks, the flight schools will catch up and the possibility of a staffing issue will be solved. Then we start the process of over-staffing all over again.

Sounds like fun. I may or may not see you there.

 

Not bagging on you, but "back in the day" people understood that they would have to probably have to instruct and starve for two years before they found a 135 job, then starve for another year or two before the made it to a "commuter" (as they used to be known), then spend another several years there before they might have the opportunity to move on to a ACMI, major carrier, or corporate job. Note that barely getting by for four years or so was pretty much just accepted as the price of entry. The difference then was there was real career progression - not so much now with commuters having morphed into regionals and then spreading everywhere like crabgrass.

Too many people have entered the profession having only looked at the last couple of years, and have come to feel entitled to an RJ seat a 500 hours (again, not directed at you).

Sad but plausible. One can only hope that when that douche from the RAA (Roger Cohen?) starts flapping his gums, that there is a very loud cry pointing out that the only shortage that exists is of experienced pilots willing to work for $25,000 per annum.

 

I disagree that there are many pilots on the streets waiting to work for peanuts.

I agree that there are many pilots that are available to fly for the regionals, but not for current wages my friend.

I currently fly for a 91 op doing aerial survey that pays way more than a regional FO could ever hope to make. Would I like to fly for the regionals? Yes. But I will not insult myself by accepting their wages. I have a family to provide for, and i know many very qualified pilots that are in my same situation.

So until they start ponying up some money they will be limited to the CFI out of a flight school that has no real world flight experience to speak of, doesn't know what it really means to work hard for a living, and thinks they are making huge amounts of money at their new regional FO job because mom and dad are still paying their student loans for them...

 

I like the way you think. Please pass it on.......

The only reason I speculate on the amount of pilots willing to work for food is because of the Gojetz principle. I need not speak further or we shall see a lock down.

 

Very good discussions going on here. 1500 hours is tough to gain from instructing. No doubt about it. I only have 900 dual given and I loved teaching, but being in the regional is 4x easier to rack up flight hours. So my condolences to the low hour cfis out there.

That being said, there was a period before the crazy regional hirings that the regionals wouldn't even look at you until you had 1500 hours. Very true, but during that period, it was a whole lot easier to find a cfi gig or part 135 gigs. Airnet for example let you ride sic in a baron and log 1200 hours until you can be the pic. So it's apples and oranges when you compare how it is now, compared to couple of years ago. The enrollment is at the lowest rate ever. All these mom and pops flight schools and small charters shut down completely. The ones that managed to stay open are quite selective or it's one of those "bring your own students" type of deal.

1500 hour rule will be great for the industry no doubt. Some of you that are such strong advocates forgot you had a wet commercial when you first got hired shouldn't look down at the current cfis or time builders. I had 600/250 back in early '08 and had offers from 3 regionals. Granted I was furloughed 2.5 years and went back to instructing, nowadays you're not even worth a rejection email with those times. I thought I was lucky but ended up paying my dues. It sucked... I would rather be on ready rsv everyday than to be a part time instructor flying 20-30 hours a month. I could've went to regional when I had 350 hours but didn't feel ready and wanted to teach a little more. One of them even offered 5k sign on bonus. Worse choice ever by staying few more months. Seniority is everything... But that's in hindsight.

So many ups and downs in this industry. Grab the opportunity when you can but try not to step on each other in the process. Learn to grind it out. Find a side gig. I learned to daytrade while I was furloughed. You think handling an engine out is scary? Try making or losing few thousand a day trading. Even now I try to fly the least as possible so I can daytrade to pay bills. Regional salary is a joke no doubt. But like many of you, I've invested a decade of my life and over 120k. I want some return on investment before I decide to bail out or stay.

Best wishes to all of us!! May there really be a shortage!!!! Regionals finally go away and we all get a seat in the majors making 6 figures working 10 days a month with 2 houses, 3 ex wives/husbands and 5 child aligmonies and can't retired until 67 because of these obligations.

iPhone. Go easy on me grammar and spelling nazis

 

I can understand all of these points, however, for what it's worth, put me down as one for the ATP requirement as it presently is not the one next year which I believe is watered down. Also, not to badmouth a dead man, but I read the NTSB report on FLT 3407 and that Captain had a history of failed checkrides (at least 4???). I could easily be accused of running a relaxed cockpit, but only above FL180, and with everyone thoughly briefed, and complying with SOP for approach operations in that type of WX. Been into BUF many times and the WX can change drastically between the FAF and DH (DA). Of course, once you're inside the FAF, you get to go take a peek!