Is Pinnacle the next ComAir?
09-06-2012 | 05:04 AM
#91
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From: "if it's got wings, I can crash it".
Are you guys kidding me? Without ALPA this company would have whipsawed us against each other. Without ALPA Pinnacle would have used Colgan to force you guys at Pinnacle to take concessions or they would transfer planes to Colgan. None of the three groups had a scope clause in their pre merger contract to stop this.
Without ALPA we would not have this decent JCBA we are working under today, its not perfect but its a LOT better than what Colgan was working under before. And its quite a bit better than what Pinnacle had before (barring health benefits).
What do you think would have happened had we not been 1 pilot group right now? I dont think it would have been pretty.
Everyone likes to ***** at ALPA because things are not always perfect. Let me tell you, Teamsters is terrible and in house unions tend to suck. Take a look at USAPA over at US Airways. I would rather have 1 union representing all airline pilots than a bunch of small ones.
Without ALPA we would not have this decent JCBA we are working under today, its not perfect but its a LOT better than what Colgan was working under before. And its quite a bit better than what Pinnacle had before (barring health benefits).
What do you think would have happened had we not been 1 pilot group right now? I dont think it would have been pretty.
Everyone likes to ***** at ALPA because things are not always perfect. Let me tell you, Teamsters is terrible and in house unions tend to suck. Take a look at USAPA over at US Airways. I would rather have 1 union representing all airline pilots than a bunch of small ones.
Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. I think their point might be that ALPA cares mostly for the senior guys. It is a sentiment shared by many, including me. Are they great?, no. Are they better than all other alternatives?, yes. I do agree with you in having one union represent ALL pilot groups, but it's never going to happen.
09-06-2012 | 05:09 AM
#92
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From: 737 Left
Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. I think their point might be that ALPA cares mostly for the senior guys. It is a sentiment shared by many, including me. Are they great?, no. Are they better than all other alternatives?, yes. I do agree with you in having one union represent ALL pilot groups, but it's never going to happen.
09-06-2012 | 07:53 AM
#93
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From: Stage Left
You can't effectively have one union represent all pilot groups. You could have one union represent the regional pilot group and another represent the majors, but it is a conflict of interest for one union to represent a major AND the associated regional partner of said major.
It's legal and logical, in theory....but unattainable.
09-08-2012 | 01:09 PM
#94
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From: right for a long, long time
I'd love to see something like that, with a board of DALPA pilots who could vote to allow exceptions (such as foreign airline or corporate pilots), but the angst over the 35% (Flowthroughs included!) was loud. I still advocate for a higher percentage of ALPA pilots, we will see if that can happen.
On top of that, I'd like to see the UCAL/DAL/ALK/FDX scope sections changed to only allow airlines with ALPA represented pilots be allowed to operate any permitted outsourced aircraft on behalf of that airline.
Unity is leverage.
On top of that, I'd like to see the UCAL/DAL/ALK/FDX scope sections changed to only allow airlines with ALPA represented pilots be allowed to operate any permitted outsourced aircraft on behalf of that airline.
Unity is leverage.
09-08-2012 | 03:44 PM
#95
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From: Slingin' Gear & Drinkin' Beer
It is puzzling to me to see how blindsided so many on this forum are. After all that ALPA has f'ed up, so many still WANT to be part of ALPA! That is rediculous in my view.
Do you all not realize that the reason Pinnacle is going to shrink is because Delta's ALPA agreed to a contract predicated on the fact that Pinnacle will SHRINK! They signed a deal that half of the CRJ-200's system wide will be parked in the desert, and only a handful of 900's will be awarded to the LOWEST bidder.
Yet!....So many still say that they want ALPA.
In our legal system, an attorney cannot legally defend the plaintiff AND the defendant. Each side of the isle needs their own representation. Likewise, a regional needs to be represented to best suit their own needs, and a major needs to be represented to best suit their own needs as well.
Pinnacle and each regionally out there could far much farther if they banded together and formed a multi-regional union.
Do you all not realize that the reason Pinnacle is going to shrink is because Delta's ALPA agreed to a contract predicated on the fact that Pinnacle will SHRINK! They signed a deal that half of the CRJ-200's system wide will be parked in the desert, and only a handful of 900's will be awarded to the LOWEST bidder.
Yet!....So many still say that they want ALPA.
In our legal system, an attorney cannot legally defend the plaintiff AND the defendant. Each side of the isle needs their own representation. Likewise, a regional needs to be represented to best suit their own needs, and a major needs to be represented to best suit their own needs as well.
Pinnacle and each regionally out there could far much farther if they banded together and formed a multi-regional union.
09-08-2012 | 03:47 PM
#96
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From: Slingin' Gear & Drinkin' Beer
Oh, and before you flame me down, keep this in mind. The total number of CRJ-200's that Delta wants to cut is the exact amount that Pinnacle has. Is this a coincidence? I personally doubt it.
If only half of Pinnacle's CRJ's get parked, then HALF of the Captains will be First Officers again, and ALL of the First Officers will be standing in the unemployment line.
ALL, because of an agreement with the Delta Pilots for their new contract.
Sooo, just keep in mind that the exact amount of regional jets that will be parked as a result of the Delta's ALPA will be the size of Pinnacle. Just imagine each and every Pinnacle Pilot becoming unemployed.........yea, ALPA is NOT looking out for the regional guys. NOPE!
If only half of Pinnacle's CRJ's get parked, then HALF of the Captains will be First Officers again, and ALL of the First Officers will be standing in the unemployment line.
ALL, because of an agreement with the Delta Pilots for their new contract.
Sooo, just keep in mind that the exact amount of regional jets that will be parked as a result of the Delta's ALPA will be the size of Pinnacle. Just imagine each and every Pinnacle Pilot becoming unemployed.........yea, ALPA is NOT looking out for the regional guys. NOPE!
09-08-2012 | 04:19 PM
#99
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From: Airbus button pusher
Oh, and before you flame me down, keep this in mind. The total number of CRJ-200's that Delta wants to cut is the exact amount that Pinnacle has. Is this a coincidence? I personally doubt it.
If only half of Pinnacle's CRJ's get parked, then HALF of the Captains will be First Officers again, and ALL of the First Officers will be standing in the unemployment line.
ALL, because of an agreement with the Delta Pilots for their new contract.
Sooo, just keep in mind that the exact amount of regional jets that will be parked as a result of the Delta's ALPA will be the size of Pinnacle. Just imagine each and every Pinnacle Pilot becoming unemployed.........yea, ALPA is NOT looking out for the regional guys. NOPE!
If only half of Pinnacle's CRJ's get parked, then HALF of the Captains will be First Officers again, and ALL of the First Officers will be standing in the unemployment line.
ALL, because of an agreement with the Delta Pilots for their new contract.
Sooo, just keep in mind that the exact amount of regional jets that will be parked as a result of the Delta's ALPA will be the size of Pinnacle. Just imagine each and every Pinnacle Pilot becoming unemployed.........yea, ALPA is NOT looking out for the regional guys. NOPE!
09-08-2012 | 04:41 PM
#100
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From: Slingin' Gear & Drinkin' Beer
Why Yes, as a matter of fact, I passed 2nd grade math. However, you must have failed 2nd grade english. It is written in this article below, highlighted to help your reading comprehension skills.
http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/n...new-labor.html
Delta pilots vote to OK new labor contract
Delta Air Lines Inc. pilots ratified a new contract, the Air Line Pilots Association reported Friday.
ALPA said 94 percent of 10,170 eligible Delta pilots cast a ballot. Of those, 62 percent voted to approve the new agreement, which begins July 1 and runs through Dec. 31, 2015.
An Aviation Week report published earlier this week said the new contract could save Delta $473 million in engine maintenance, Bombardier CRJ200 ownership and Delta Connection contract costs. The proposed new pilot contract includes terms that would enable Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) to drop almost 200, 50-seat aircraft from its network by the end of 2015
Last week, Pinnacle Airlines Corp. announced that it was halting labor negotiations while it reformulated its business plan in reaction to the new Delta pilot contract. After it emerges from bankruptcy protection, 140 of Pinnacle’s 181 aircraft will be 50-seat CRJ-200s, the exact planes Delta's new pilot agreement will phase out.
Delta Air Lines Inc. pilots ratified a new contract, the Air Line Pilots Association reported Friday.
ALPA said 94 percent of 10,170 eligible Delta pilots cast a ballot. Of those, 62 percent voted to approve the new agreement, which begins July 1 and runs through Dec. 31, 2015.
An Aviation Week report published earlier this week said the new contract could save Delta $473 million in engine maintenance, Bombardier CRJ200 ownership and Delta Connection contract costs. The proposed new pilot contract includes terms that would enable Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) to drop almost 200, 50-seat aircraft from its network by the end of 2015
Last week, Pinnacle Airlines Corp. announced that it was halting labor negotiations while it reformulated its business plan in reaction to the new Delta pilot contract. After it emerges from bankruptcy protection, 140 of Pinnacle’s 181 aircraft will be 50-seat CRJ-200s, the exact planes Delta's new pilot agreement will phase out.
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