Pinnacle TA consequences forSkyWest/Expessjet
 

If this TA passes what will the consequences be for SkyWest and Expressjet ?

303.

Imagine getting kicked in the nuts...now imagine getting kicked simultaneously by 2300 pilots. That's the consequence.

Oh...and this too....

They are going to kicked regardless of the outcome of the TA. If it passes, Delta asks Skywest Holdings to beat block hour cost of PCL. If the TA does not pass, Delta threatens the same fate as Comair and Pinnacle if Skywest Holdings does not lower its block hour cost. If it does not pass, Skywest/Expressjet may get some airframes out of the deal but it will probably be a steep loss and management will surely explain the need for concessions.

We aren't wholly owned by Delta, so threatening to turn us into Comair or Pinnacle does nothing at the moment. Pinnacle was mismanaged into BK, which we fortunately have not been.

If the TA does pass, our management has the ability to tell us here's the new standard, make it happen. If it doesn't pass and is forced on Pinnacle, at least we can make an argument against stooping that low and keeping our rates up. And if we can continue to diversify our flying with other carriers, we can tell mother Delta to shove it.

The TA is going to pass by a significant margin. We are deciding to punt on fourth and one, down by fourteen. We will still lose, just not as bad of a loss. This is going to suck for you, us and the industry.

ding ding ding....finally someone with a dose of reality


I may as well start a poll blaming Comair being shut down for Pinnacle's problems.....it would be about as useful

or how about....consequences of Pinnacle voting no and being shut down on SKW? then you will vote in a pay cut because 50 -900's are being dangled in front of you and Daddy D says "take this or we shut you too." Everyone is screwed anyway don't blame them!

I don't think ASA / Skywest will lose flying, but management will come at you for concessions to match Pinnacle's new entry in the race to the bottom.

Pinnacle's negotiations violated Section 40 of the Admin Manual and violated the Constitution and Bylaws. Talk to your Reps, get your MEC Chair to call an Executive Board. Over ride the PNCL agreement.

Wow man someone forward me the address of an Asa or Skywest pilot so I can forward them my signing bonus from the pncl ta. Wait nevermind I could care less what happens to any other regional. But then again I have a pipe dream where every regional goes out of business...

so in the name of Unity and Brotherhood and not dragging the industry down how many of you are willing to get us hired on at your airline with our current longevity/seniority? crickets.....

Ok. I will vote no if you guys give me a job at my current pay level, I don't even need the seniority for bidding. Oh wait that wont happen that's why I voted yes.

... and the GoJets guys thank you for taking the heat off of them.

I'm not sure where you sit on the seniority list, but the majority of your guys *SHOULD* care what happens to other regionals as a result of this vote because Pinnacle pilots will make up the majority of any new hire classes at other regionals. And they'll have to live with the severe consequences of their Pinnacle TA yes vote at their next regional job.

^^^^ +1

Don't be so short sighted guys, look at the big picture. :rolleyes:

Really? What year pay are you on? Your title says FO, so I'll assume that's what you still are. 2nd year at OO/XJT will pay you more than your TA FO top out rate.
So, go ahead and vote yes, and when you start over at another regional in a years time. You can't bi*** about wages since your "yes" vote was what created "the new standard"

This is what our FOs don't get. I have FOs telling me "well getting our contract sliced and diced and having a job is better then no job".
Ok there is going to be very very little hiring this year, and as its starting to look maybe not a whole lot next year.
Your saving your job for a year and then your getting laid off.
For some reason our FOs think this is going to save their job, guys its just delaying your job loss that's all.
Unless you go to another regional in the next year to year and a half your gone and will no longer be current.
We also have a fair amount of FOs that seem to think within the next year or so they're gonna get hired at a major, because this hiring boom is gonna be so massive.
For 99% of our FOs if you want to keep flying its going to be at another regional.

Yeah, look at all the support the TSA guys got for trying to hold the line when gojets was created. We get told off daily now that we should have "just said yes". Not that I support the pinnacle guys approving this abortion of a TA, but this "support" from other airlines doesn't exist.

ALPA national should not have signed off on this.

They haven't yet. Shows how little you know about the Constitution and By-Laws.

Pay isn't everything that goes into costing. We still retain some BETTER THAN INDUSTRY STANDARD provisions. Healthcare, min day, JR assignment protection, post-2014 vacation accrual, per diem. Please stop acting like we are GoJet (no "s" on GOJET).

You're right about the lack of support from other airlines. Everyone is just worried a out their own a$$. Also remember many people, especially captains don't want to start over at another regional. Your rates will take a hit regardless if this is voted down or not. Delta will negotiate your next Asa's off of go-jets rates

+2

Quoted for the truth. I don't work for Pinnacle, but I hope they realize how their vote today will affect other regionals now, and themselves tomorrow.

When I vote no and my company shuts down I will personally come kick you in the nuts regardless. Then I'll ask you for a check to pay for my mortgage and my kids while I go through another regional training program and first year pay. Sound good to you? Thanks for the help buddy, I appreciate it!

I was a firm NO vote but coming on here and reading all these other "pilots" complain about THEIR future because of OUR contract have turned my vote into a YES. Instead of coming on here and pleading your case you would be better off contacting your local leaders and demanding a national seniority list. Many of you think you do not have a say in how this vote goes but you have convinced me to vote yes, you can now tell all your buddies/co-workers that you helped to pass the 9E concessionary TA.

Does GJ have min day? Honest question.

What's with some of you asking for longevity pay and seniority integration? Really? You get hired somewhere else, you go to the bottom. Why is Pinnacle any different?

It sucks what's happening, and it sucks that this TA will more than likely pass. Unfortunately the majority can't see the forest through the trees.

#1 - why should any unionized group care how a non-unionized group does based on our hard fought contracts. Skywest guys, go ALPA, then complain.

#2 - if you are on a portion of the list not subject to immediate furlough, why would you vote to shut your company down sooner since you start over at year 1 pay.

Year 4 TA pay is about $37 I believe. Well, year one everywhere is $20, and reserve. So, get shafted with pay and schedule, or lose pay rate and make up for it by bidding 18 days off and picking up red flag trips?? Hm.. Not so easy is it?

1.) every airline that has a union deserved them.

2.) you're company will not shut down overnight. It would wind down over a course of 1yr+. Either way 65% will need to look for a job regardless.

3.) year 2 here at OO is 38. And tops at 48. I know you can do math so which one has the greater earning potential?

Food for thought, the majors won't be hiring like gangbusters as much as everyone believes.

We do. It's a 4 hr. min day.


I'm sorry that you all are being thrown into the fire for contract negotiations. It seems like my expirence at Comair is spreading to the rest of the industry.

That reasoning is beyond ridiculous. Delta has longterm contracts with SKYW /XJT. They can't threaten a Comair/PNCL fate because of that and the fact they don't own us. Delta owned Comair and basically owns Pinnacle so they can do what they want.

The PNCL TA really only affects XJT/SKYW by reducing the rates paid to Delta if there is another "rate reset" in the long term CPA and we are no longer the second lowest cost.

Delta had no choice but to provide PNCL DIP financing, but they used it to work in their favor. If PNCL liquidated SKYW would have an unprecedented amount of leverage in DCI as far as rates.

To answer the question... What will they do.. As the aircraft come up on the end of there CPA, 1 of 2 things will happen.. 1. they (SkyW inc) own the Aircraft and its a 700/900. They bid a price that they will make a profit at... If Delta says no.. They take that airplane and fly it for someone else.. 2. They don't own the aircraft (Delta does) they bid a price that will make a profit.. If Delta says no.. They give the keys to GoJet or 9E.. And walk away.. Delta just reset the game.. Just like when your kids playing xbox and you trip over the cord...sorry you have to start over...thanks for playing...

uh, ALPA national IS DAL. that's one of the biggest problems.

The end of SKYW Inc's current CPAs are in 2017, which ironically is the same time the aircraft leases end(on the SKYW financed planes) and the same time the MRJs come online. I'm all for speculation but 4 years from now is a stretch and most of us will have moved on. In the near term, there is not much Delta can do to Inc outside of a rate reset

It's a rogue guy that came from DL. Big difference.

They only care about their dues. If they didnt sign off on it, and PNCL liquidates, no more dues...

Lee Moak was in on the negotiations... Good luck with that check and balance.

Well as far as going to another regional. Not doing that. Not starting over at an "entry level job".

Really it's $38?

According to APC we have $22 y1 ($19 less than current, $15 less than proposed), and y2 on the most junior aircraft is $31.

Again, QOL death and pay bleeding.

It's almost two years since the JCBA ratified. Why didn't SKW/ASA/XJT pattern bargain yet?

This line of thought is so funny!

Skywest and ExpressJet guys should not worry about how the 9E TA affects them.

When management comes to you with a big stick and asks for concessions, all you have to do is follow the advice you are giving Pinnacle pilots ................ vote NO.

Problem solved, right?

You got it !;)

Exactly!!!!!!