Rip pinnacle - 01/15/2013

They will vote yes and blame pinnacle.

+1

I sincerely hope they don't have to make such a crappy choice.

Sweet! My turn to bat! Burn it down.

Oh wait, I work for L-XJT. We don't do Delta flying.

I guess all those 200's ASA flys for Delta won't hurt you when they go away.

What a bunch of spineless weenies!!!

ASA made it very clear they will not negotiate without Flightline PBS. Not my fault.

I am also sure that United wants all of those 50 seater's. Maybe I am misunderstanding your intentions of your statement. But you sound like you think you are above this.

That's classic lol somebody who voted yes on this TA just called another regional crappy.

For the 15% that voted no, good for you! We all knew it would pass but at least you tried! Probably the bottom 15% of the seniority list but nonetheless kudos to you! And best luck to the rest of you. Lets all move on soon and get out of this darn rat race!

Be ready to walk the walk. Skywest is next.

You know, it's comments like this that shows this industry's true colors. Through this whole process we never recieved one offer of help from any other MEC. So in the interest of self preservation many voted this TA in. Your comments to vote this down was not a solution to the problem we face at the regional level. What we need is solidarity between all ALPA carriers. Offers of a certain percentage integration on your seniority list would have gone a long way to show solidarity. But that wouldn't have worked either, would it? Because it would have made your company more top heavy, and delayed up-grades to selfish people like you. Your only words of encouragement were that we would be able to start over, perhaps even at your company. Well, quite frankly with the state of the industry and most of the 200's going away, that's a bigger crap shoot than what Delta offered us. Face it, we are all do contract work, and Delta is going to manage their costs for said contracts. Your comments show you as self serving, arrogant, and a person that totally lacks compassion and understanding for people going through very tough times. And then you criticize us for making this choice. I truey hope that you and your kind are the minority where you work, and that you never have to experience what we went through. But I will also say that I'm old enough to believe in karma.

Thank you.

Great post

translation......you messed up my upgrade because we will not be getting the new 900's or your current ones...:rolleyes:

Would you have refused to fly them for 9e guys taking one for the team and sticking it to the man?

My statement was NOT meant to imply that Pinnacle and this TA aren't beyond crappy. It was meant to imply that almost all jobs in this sector of the business are crappy by the very nature of the agreements our companies have with the majors and the conflict of interest that exists within our "national union".

I agree 100% and like I said I wish you guys the best and hope we can all move on. Just funny there are many guys and gals out there believe their crappy regional is better than another crappy regional :)

Don't worry guys we will have a shortage soon and all regionals will shut down and we will all go to majors! I've waited 13 years, surely it won't be another 13 before the shortage begins!

Sure, sure we are. That's why your airline offered us all jobs at no loss of pay, right?

exactly, ill still gripe.....im disappointed this passed. and i do understand both sides of the issue, however I think this sets another lower wall to the rest of the industry.
:mad:

What is up with you guys thinking you should've gotten some sort of integration help from another airline? What are you smoking? Should other ALPA airlines have offered preferential interviews? Shoot yeah! But seniority and longevity??? You're nuts!

Good luck though, we're all going to need it now.

Because everyone likes to sling the mud on us for voting this in based how how they think it will affect them. The alternative for us would have been no job at all or starting over at another regional at less pay, both of which are worse than eating this **** sandwich IMO. No one expects their seniority and pay to transfer to another company...this is the airline industry after all.

A wind-down would have taken at least 12 months. 65% of the pilot group will be furloughed (or gone - attrition) within the next 12-24 months. It seems no matter which way this TA went, the die is already cast for 65% of the pilots.

It isnt that simple. We arent losing 140 airplanes overnight. The latest projections still have us possibly having up to 60 200s 2 years from now. The exit schedule for them is based on when the engine mx comes up. They arent all at the same time. There will be overlap between 900s arriving and 200s leaving. The latest projections accounting for the SSP, retirements and attrition is less than 100 now. At some point hiring may even be necessary. So while 65% of the pilots currently on the list may not be here in a couple of years, they will not be involuntarily furloughed most likely.

Pinnacle pilots ratify agreement
 

Pinnacle Airlines pilots ratify new labor agreement | LeveragedLoan.com

the company said the new agreement’s changes, which covers pilot pay, retirement, work rules and benefits, will become effective when concessions are implemented for the airline’s other labor groups and non-union employees.”


Pinnacle Airlines pilots ratify new labor agreement | LeveragedLoan.com

Already another thread with 6000+ views and 60+ responses.

In about a year and half if you want to keep flying you are going to be on the bottom of another regionals list starting over.
This is not an alternative its a delay... why oh why do you guys think this saved your job.. IT DIDNT! 65% of the pilots are gone from this company.. this seems to be forgotten in all of our mighty FOs posts.

Well PCLCREW a lot can happen in 2 years. Believing it will be all good would be just as foolish as beleiving it will be all bad. I have been here for 15+ years, my experience in the industry leads me to believe my statement is correct.

I've been in for a couple of years less then you, but Im just saying what the union has posted... 100 aircraft leaving the fleet and 1000-1500 furloughs. If you are an FO or a Junior Capt your not making it thorugh this. Personally I dont care Ive been furloughed 3 times already... Im really just point out that the only jobs that have been saved are the most senior of this group... an FOs job is not saved, this TA merely postponed that happening.

I highly doubt 65% of the pilot group will be gone. I would have agreed with you and said that we would lose our jobs with certainty without the bridge agreement, but that deal and the precedent it sets changes everything. No way DAL management gives that up, not without major concessions from the mainline group to get rid of it.

Sorry to read this information. As I see it Pinnacle has now pay rate "matched" themselves to be competitive for all of the American flying that Republic/Shuttle America is bidding for at this time.

I never like to see anyone associated with ALPA or any other airline union get threatened to take a pay cut or be done away with while the CEO's and management make off with loads of cash. When is it our time to stand up and say enough is enough?

If you look at my position underneath my avatar you'll know how I voted on our CAL/United TA. It didn't go the way I wanted, but I'm not going to have a hissy fit about it.

As far as the Pinnacle TA, it's hard to say what would you do if it happened to you. If I was at a regional it seems as though it'd be a never ending cycle of chasing the quick upgrade just to get out of the regionals and into a major.

Let me give you this one food for thought. Please look at yourself and respect yourself for all of the money spent on education, time spent away from loved ones, and effort that you have poured into your careers. Keep that fighting spirit and PLEASE bring it to the majors with you when we all start hiring heavily within a year or two. I want to stand side by side with fellow pilots that want to bring this career back to where it belongs!

I don't intend for this to be a judgmental post. Keep your heads up PNCL pilots as it will get better, it's the only direction for it to turn.

What's the point of ALPA at regionals if you doing contract feed gives no leverage.

We won't be allowed to fly for other carriers........unless we are eventually divested by Delta.

Incorrect they specifically said we could fly for other carriers. Realistic? Nope.

True, the union FAQ (which I didn't see as entirely truthful on this particular question) stated we could but it is highly unlikely. I can't recall a time when a wholly owned carrier successfully won a bid to fly for another carrier.

Um?? No, Not correct ASA(Express Jet) 200 FO 23hr 1st year 36.13 2nd 38.58 3rd 39.79 4th 41.01 5th 42.29 6th 43.59 7th

Im just shy of 7 years, FO at ASA and I'm at 45.57/hr, not much but probably better than most regionals.

edit: Im on the 700 (pays a little more per hour than the 200)

On the CA side.

Having pinnacle flying for united worked so well, delta had the q's parked in less than 6 months and united still doesn't have them all in the air because they ate unable to staff them!

Only a couple years ago, 99% Pinnacle pilots voted to strike. This speaks volumes for all of us.

a couple of years ago, we were dealing solely with a greedy incompetent regional management team with lots of newbies and disgruntled senior guys on property who had nothing to lose at all by shutting her down (and probably only for a few days) at a time when the economy was safe and there was hiring going on until the bust in mid '08. This time, the balance sheet was really in the red and we were not negotiating with Pinnacle management, we were dealing with DL, and same said pilots have more invested in the company, and realize Spandex and co. will be replaced. Plus the odds of getting on at a major are slim until 2014. USair already said no thanks to most of our experienced guys. At least that's what I see as the reason for the 99% then to the 85% for today...

Sorry for trolling on your regional thread, but if it makes you feel better we are the same at the majors. We at Continental/United voted 99% in favor for strike in early 2012. Then we voted in a substandard TA at 67% in favor about 8 months later. Wow, how weak are we?!?!

Management takes note of this behavior and it propagates itself over and over and over......