No do you think that the ten of thousands of airline pilots that are flying around all have passed every checkride?? I been 50% present have failed something along the way.

How does a person fail a 121 recurrent checkride and not know it?

Gotcha....

Yeah it would unfortunately.... not as bad as someone with two but that is the world we live in now.

That seems highly unlikely since you would need to be re-trained and re-tested.

An instructor can rewind, train, and retest a maneuver on the fly and that actually does get documented on the checklist (supposed to be anyway) but that does not normally count as a failure of the ride.

Right, I am pretty sure that the instructor would not let him go fly around with a failed checkride... hard to believe

The moral of the story here is do not lie. This is almost always one of the first questions you are asked during the app/screening process. When I got hired many years ago that was one of the first questions on the pilot paperwork after I arrived at the interview. I checked yes and in the explaination box thoroughly explained what happened. I was never even asked about it in the actual interview and that was that. Got the job and never had to look over my shoulder.

FWIW I asked HR to see all the stuff they got on me. They didn't get my entire FAA file just the PRIA. I am sure it differs from each airline. Lets just say through no fault of your own something hits you while you are on push or taxi. You can bet they are still going to to a thorough investigation and if that busted ride comes up that wasn't reported you are toast. I have heard of it happening before.

As far as traffic tickets/DUIs go most applications ask for EVERYTHING and I would be very careful about the whole expungement/it dissapears after x amount of years thing. A thorough background check not only asks for traffic records but for court records, arrest recorts etc. One guy that was upgrading to captain in my transition class finally got a job offer with a big airline just around a decade or so ago. He was talking about how he had an attorney get his 2 wreckless driving convictions expunged and how it probably helped immensely. Turns out they figured it out through arrest/court records and he got the boot. There is always a paper trail for everything and lying is the most surefire way to get yourself exiled from the 121 industry. Every application I have ever seen asks have you EVER had a ticket/checkride bust/DUI, etc etc. It asks for everything not just the ones that are currently on your record/haven't been expunged, in fact a lot of apps I have filled out specifically say expunged means nothing to them and lying is grounds for immediate termination even if it is found out years later. I like not looking over my shoulder personally.

Ole Marv really hosed you guys didn't he?

He said during the ride, the instructor had him redo a maneuver. He did it fine the second time. This was not AQP. He was then on his way. Never crossed his mind that redoing a maneuver was a failure. In his file, it was. This cost him a job.

That's a fishy story to say the least. I'm not a checkairman but I've always been under the impression that if you bust a ride, the sim stops, you get out, you go home. Retrain is just a retrain.

Always a good idea to disclose checkride failures. Just be honest, explain what happened and how you learned from it. If the company finds out about it after your hired (and I have seen this) your are asked to step outside of class for a moment and bring your stuff. then no one knows where you went then some guy or gal comes in and re-emphasizes about disclosing stuff etc.

Just tell your friend to be honest. Hope this helps. :)

Yes, normally.

But if you rewind and repeat a manuever, that does get recorded on the checklist (supposed to anyway).

I don't think that's a failure, it's part of the PC process. If you have to repeat a bunch stuff and run out of time, then you fail. I have been asked at an interview "ever failed a PC?" No. "ever had to repeat a manuever?" Yes.

But a PRIA request would probably return those records, so they would see that you repeated something. It seems unlikely that an interviewer would consider that a "checkride failure" since nobody else in the industry does.

The FAA supplies all 8710's which will include rexaminations ( failures ) if he lied about checkrude failures he will get terminated and now have a failure to complete training at a a 121 company on his record :(

If it is a PC failure though, that would be a company training record not an FAA record. Wouldnt that just fall off after 5 years? There was nothing sent to the FAA, its recurrent training. I was under the impression that 121 company training records are only held onto for 5 years?

I believe 121 companies are only required to provide records that are within the 5 year look back from the date requested

The original post indicates part 91 and log book is gone so I would assume it was an 8710 event .
but 8710's will show re examinations if say the instrument rating or cfi check ride were failed for example . 8710's are there forever AFAIK .

The logbook being missing / destroyed may illicit more scrutiny.
Being honest and forthright is is the only way to go whatever the case .

So does this mean a 121 training failure (ie PC, written test, ect) will no longer come up on your PRIA once you have passed the 5 year window?

In theory, but if the clerk screws up and sends them ALL your records you'd be hosed if you lied (yes this happened). Be careful.

Well, I guess that means I would be screwed. I busted my 1st CommASEL the same way, and like you the DPE felt worse about it than I did! Went back the next afternoon after a quick session with my CFI and passed with flying colors.

Thank God I don't want to fly for the Regionals. If they are THAT friggin' anal I wouldn't want to work for any of 'em anyway!

This whole thread makes me laugh. From what I can gather, they expect a guy to be perfect...on paper and otherwise...but want to pay him/her peanuts while treating them like dog poo...all for the privilege of flying from point A to point B, on the crappiest of schedules, in a rigid seniority system where merit has no meaning or place, for less $$ than a manager at a Taco f'n Bell.

People are INSANE to want a job like that, much less work for the unmitigated JACKASSES who would set such standards.

I'll have to rethink the respect I ha(d)ve for regional pilots. Sure, they worked like slaves to get to where they are, but in reality they are just prostitutes HOPING...praying...to someday fly a bigger jet.

Now I don't know who is worse...the Regional executives and HR morons who live to treat people like dirt, or the morons who "can't wait" to work for them.

Un-f'n-believable. No wonder the airline industry is so screwed up. Jesus.

You are missing the whole point. The regionals never really cared about the number of busts, until someone with 4 or 5 lied on their application and ended up a smoking hole in the ground. It was the flying public and the media that cared about checkride busts after that, and the management caved to the pressure. Now excuse me while this lowlife goes and plays 747 driver on Flight Sim X since thats obviously my dream and all I live for....but it is pathetic we are even having a conversation about lying about a bust. True character...:rolleyes:

Checkrides and PCs aren't that hard. Study hard, show up prepared, have a good attitude, and be willing to learn. One or two busts isn't too bad, it's the people with 4 or more busts that are problem childs that shouldn't be doing this job. The Colgan guy at BUF is an example, as was the Captain of the Learjet crash at CAE. She had 4 previous checkride busts, and got hired at Executive Jet without the normal sim check given to applicants because she came "with good recommendations." This was a 3,100 hr pilot who aborted well above V1, despite her FO saying "go" and "go go go" meaning take off.

One or two failures is a bad day. 4 or more is a repeating pattern of someone just not cut out for this job. It's an easy job, but not everyone is made for it.

Two...no...three things.

1) I didn't miss anything. What I really said was a pathetic job is even MORE hard to get because now someone has to be perfect on paper, and that makes me laugh.

2) At no time did I ever say any regional pilot was a lowlife. What I said was...paraphrased...is that someone has to be stupid to want a job that pays what a regional airline pays while getting treated like dog poo.

3) The truth can be harsh sometimes. You regional guys should be used to that by now.

Nevermind and my apologies.

You do realize that "regional guys" also includes captains right? All of whom make between 70-100k. What are you pulling down these days big time cfi?

Not if you don't work at one of dem der fancy regionals. $45k is pretty average lol prolly because they hire those multiple checkride bust guys.

You have been through airline training I take it? You flown jets ( sorry, managed systems) in A airspace I take?

Nevermind and my apologies.

All I see is a lot of judging going on in here....

any jet operator is running an upgrade time of about 6 years now. Gojets excluded. No jet operator pays less then 72/hr to sixth year CA. Even at min guarantee of 72 hours thats 62200/year. Thats MIN guarantee not including per diem.

Im one of these regional guys for whom you have lost all respect.

I'm referring to prop operators.

maybe cape air, great lakes, and Coex, but thats it. Even peidmont pays at least in the 70s at fore mentioned seniority and they just got a new contract (with raises I heard).

That was a very, very poor choice of words on my part. And right now, in this moment, I want to apologize to everyone.

What I DO understand is having the dream to do something you love more than just about anything and getting paid to do it.

It's just a damn shame that the suits who employ you guys know it and can make you put up with ungodly crap for it.

I'm sorry for my poor choice of words. I surely love to fly, and I love airplanes....same as you guys. Maybe I should just be thankful that I don't love 'em enough to put up with what you guys have to put up with.

Silver and Commutair have relatively quick upgrades but you won't see $70/hr for a long time hopefully never as those guys can maybe make it to greener pastures.

Accepted. You have to understand the entire airline industry has been in a nose dive since 911. When I was hired at my regional in 07 I was expecting to be on captain pay in 1.5 years. Next stop delta, united etc. All of us did. Then, age 65 came. If I knew in 07 that id be on fo pay for the next 5.5 years maybe I wouldve looked into other opportunities, but my crystal ball is broken so here I am. What im trying to say is that we dont lack self respect. We did not sign up for the way our careers have unfolded thus far. It just happened that way. However, im not just going to quit my 50k/year, 14 days off/month job now. I have bills.

That figure does include perdiem. More like mid 40s actually.

9E's 6th year CA pay for CRJ-200 is $68.31/hr. Right now, the scale goes from a hypothetical 1st year CA rate of 58.92/hr to the top max rate 12th year at 81.55/hr. This max rate for the 50 seater is actually lower than the 12th year max rate under 9E's 1999 contract.

New bankruptcy rates? Thats a shame. Im going to venture a guess and say they did not sign up that either.

They got to vote on the concessions, and 85% voted yes to those rates.

I understand. And thank you.

I'll say just one more thing and then I'll shut up <----which I should have done before I ever began posting on this thread.

There isn't an airplane I have ever flown on that I didn't stop to thank the flight crew before I got off, unless they were already gone because I was assigned a seat right next to the crapper on the last row in back and I was the last man off.

I hope every one of you guys makes it to the seat you've always wanted, and most of you deserve, after all the hellacious BS you've had to deal with.

When I was a boy, people dressed up to get on an airplane to travel and flight crews were truly appreciated. And I'll kiss your *** if our society has "progressed" to a better time than they were back then.

Sorry for the threadjack.

Im not going to speculate on their thinking when it came to voting on that. How would I vote? No. I also voted no on the 900 rates we have at psa today (no 900s ofcourse). However, Im not going to judge those guys for their vote. Its theirs after all to cast any way they like, and I dont work there. I work here.

Since 9-11? This industry was screwed up waaaaay before that...