Good lord, that's downright criminal IMHO. And then they complain that they can't attract enough qualified applicants. :rolleyes:

A system that ensures accountability and performance does not create a good ole boy club. I think you have the wrong idea about how this could work. In any event, nothing will change. Part of the draw to this business is that you can get raises and upgrades with little to no effort. We don't employ the type of people that would support such a system. Most of the people I fly with can't even have an adult conversation with their manager or chief pilot without a union rep holding their hand. Pretty ridiculous.

Australia has a regulated, minimum pilot pay range based on pax/etc, and they have a much more vibrant economy than we do lately.

The free market determines the minimum scale. The minimum scale is obviously pretty low and therefore that's what it should be. As long as a company is able to attract minimally qualified applicants for a given position that meets its needs, that's what the wage should be.

When the regional airlines (or anyone for that matter) are unable to attract applicants for a given position, then they know their total compensation is too low. They then have the choice of either not filling the position and parking the jet (in the case of an airline) or raising wages.

I think reigonal FOs should start out anywhere between 30 - 45k, that would be a fair pay for a starting regional pilot.

It is sad to see pilots who make less than 20k in their first year, I worked as a Pax Agent and made more than that, it's just not right. But then again, I worked for an Airline where a starting Pilot makes 65.000EUR beginning.

That's funny. So you're saying if mainline paid say 30% less they would have a hard time recruiting pilots. We get paid what management decides will keep us quiet and not do anything about it.

It's all merit based where I work now. There are good and bad things. On the good side most guys have to prove themselves on their recurrent check ride to be considered for upgrade. Along with that the captains are asked about the performance of the FO's. this system has led to long term FO's because they had no business in the left seat. On that note I've seen it held over people's heads if they call out sick which leads to people flying sick for fear of missing that upgrade. It's a good system if your a good employee and work hard but it does jeopardize safety with people wanting to get the job done no matter what.

^^^ This (post #24) with a caveat or qualifier that no salary or wage structure should be allowed to be so low, or high, so as to create attending problems that are worse than the suppressed or inflated market wages. For example, it appears that in the regional airline business, new pilots will work for wages so low they are below even the poverty line, below a reasonable wage. The suppressed wages create problems because the pilots will skimp on sleep quality to get by. A serious laissez faire economist will say it should all balance out so let the sleepy pilots just crash airplanes (I guess), but the government cannot sit by and allow that to happen- we must intervene to establish reasonable wages. If we allow crack to be sold like cigarettes a lot of people will be harmed that could otherwise be kept safe.

That's not what I am saying at all. I am saying that the free market determines what wages will be. If a regional airline is paying entry level F/O's $15,000 per year and they have a stack of qualified applicants, then the total compensation they are offering is likely too high. Conversely, if jets start getting parked for lack of qualified applicants, then the compensation is too low.

So what "should" the minimum wage be in the purest sense? The smallest wage that keeps the airplanes flying and meets minimum legal requirements.

ALPA Minimum: 45K for first year FO on probation. 60k second year. 1st Year captain 80k. After that ALPA can negotiate within each carrier.

45K provides barely enough money for a starter family to get by in most areas of the country for a first year - provided they have savings.

My friend is a trouble line-man with the local utility. His base is 104k. He usually makes $150-160k. No, not a new employee. But a first year trouble line main starts at 85K. They generally train you. They have a union. Not an association. Getting rid of the RLA is the critical first step. But that's been said for 30+ years.

Seriously, I've seen (and often experienced) the decline for a long long time. I am amazed people (or are they only pilots?) still walk into the hail of terrible pay like they are Australian soldiers at Gallipoli