Jetjock,

I concur, there is the intangible values that you mention, and one great sunset is worth about $10k. I'm just putting the info out there for those that haven't done anything else. I get the impression from the boards that folks walk into this career with SJS and don't look at it objectively and understand the risks, benefits and rewards. Hopefully I am helping that.

Good paragraph. Something that has bugged me - the italic'd part above is a daily part of our flying in the military. My question is, why is this not part of flying for the airlines? Is the fact that pilot's (in general) are not concerned with this a contributing factor to the health of the industry, and the low wages? The impression I have is "that's management's problem". That said, most SWA pilot's I have met are very aware of this......

Just tossing that out there, because I see that as being part of working for any company, and would expect to be evaluated as such. Without that, you are essentially in a communist system where everyone is rewarded the same as long as the minimums get accomplished. One of the reasons I'm not going to fly in the civilian world, because I want to be rewarded for the quality of work I accomplish, not because I showed up. If I'm doing more than another guy to help the company succeed, I expect to be rewarded more than them. If someone is not contributing, for the overall good of the organization, they should go away! The communist system works great as long as everyone is on the same page (as in, 1 pay rate across the whole pilot community, regardless of company).

Not trying to generate flame bait or stroke SkyHigh. I think you can have a very rewarding career in aviation, I just fail to understand with the "I'll do a couple years in a regional, get to a major and life will be so sweeet" mentality.

Spongebob

 

No matter what you do in life it is stressful and rife with risk. Why not do something worth having? Most airline pilots will tell you that you will be furloughed, laid off or shut down at least three times over a career. If a business fails everyone usually ends up broke anyway. To me employees take the greatest risk of all. They take the fall with their employers but give up the opportunity to take the profits as an employee if the business succeeds.

If you have the ability to climb the ladder at SW and to pay your way through flight school then you also have the ability to start a business. It is absurd to have to consider working several jobs to simply keep a flying dream alive. It isn't a job anymore but a hobby.

It all takes the same amount of work and sacrifice. Why take aim at someday hopefully reaching adequate when you have the potential to become so much more?

In the current world the terms "Airline" and "Secure" don't belong in the same sentence.


SkyHigh

 

Here's want you're leaving out. Make sure you read it and understand it. If you need more reports I'll be more than glad to supply.

http://www.fltops.com/article.asp?ID=4570

 

Everyone measures stress differently and flying is not stressful! At least to me.

This is how you feel then fine, but I measure my life a bit different and so do many others. There are two parts to life, personal and professional. If you're not happy in one then it will undoubtedly role over into the other. I love my job and I love my family so I consider myself a very luck man.

As far as "Most airline pilots will tell you that you will be furloughed, laid off or shut down at least three times over a career," we'll see. I'm in this for the long haul as is many other pilots. I don't do this for the money and I understand that I'll never get rich while flying, but I'm fine with that. I LOVE my job and I will always love my career.

 

Since the first flight there has been occasional talk of the great pilot shortage. It sells magazines and pilot licences but does little else.

You are smart. Consider the total proposed number of retirees at the majors and spread them out over the next 6 years or so. It really doesnt amount to much. Delta has already lost most of its pilot group aged 54 and older to early retirement and AA has so many on furlough as it is that they will not notice much of a difference either. Continue down the list and you will see that it is little more than a bump in the road.

Lets not forget the proposed are 65 rule change. That little event would assure that you guys will be stuck at the regionals for a long time.

Skyhigh

 

Now we are back to the beginning. You are stating to me that you acknowledge that you most likely "will not get rich" and that you are flying because you "love the job". That is great, others here have an interest in finding real gainful employment and not a life quest. My aim is to insure that they have that information so they can make an informed decision on how they wish their future to turn out.

You have mentioned that you are well educated in business from a prestigious school. By my guess you must have almost 200K in education and training invested into a career that most likely will produce as much as an urban bus driver. If you think that is a good idea then good for you. Sounds to me like you are trying to duck taking real responsibility for your life.

Aviation is not a real profession anymore. The costs of education, training and personal sacrifice of a flying career are far out of balance with the prospects of its compensation. Even a Harvard graduate can tell you that.


SkyHigh

 

I absolutly agree, but in the airline industry there's to much anomsity between labor groups and Mgmnt. My uncle is a hiring CA and he'll tell you the same thing. He'll also say that is why SWA is on top. Both Mgmnt and the labor groups respect each other and work hard to achieve the same goal. This is why SWA is my career target.

Because of my history I will always do my part to help my airline, after all it's in my best interst, but I can only do so much as a line pilot.

I completely agree; this is a huge problem in the aviation industry. But it's a common problem with any company that has many large skilled labor groups (pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, rampers, etc.) I'm sure even the military finds it difficult at times.

 

From the FAA's web site on pilot statistics. There are currently over 262,000 active licensed commercial and ATP pilots today with valid medicals. over 80,000 of them are CFI's. For every pilot who holds a medical there are at least 4 more who quit and let it lapse. The numbers on uncounted commercial pilots is staggering. The odds of making to a major airline are at least one in 25.

http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/a...ia/air1-05.xls


Who knows how many failed military pilots are out there who never got a civilian license.

SkyHigh

 

I was lucky to not have to pay for college (full ride tennis scholarship). So I am lucky and I have no educational debt.

A profession is an occupation that requires extensive training and the study and mastery of specialized knowledge, and usually has a professional association, ethical code and process of certification or licensing (this is the definition). How can you actually say that aviation (career pilot) is not a profession?

 

Because the definition of "profession" suggests that one is getting paid a fair compensation for the service.


Even though you have no debt for the cost of your training and education the opportunity cost of a flying career is still very high. My aim is not to dissuade you from doing anything, but others read this stuff and need to know that a flying career is not going to produce a return worthy of the efforts required.

Thank you for your debate, but it is time for me to hit the sack. Should you have any more comments I will look forward to reading them tomorrow.

Thanks !


SkyHigh