Outstanding ALPA Leadership for Regionals
 

We are all so fortunate to have ALPA President Lee Moak providing such visionary leadership at the regionals.

His unwavering determination to make large contract gains in the face of the lack of supply of new pilots for the regionals is awe inspiring.

Surely the entire contents of Flying the Line part 3 will be all about him and his restoring the piloting profession.

How he drew a line in the sand and told the flying public it was no longer acceptable to pay a new hire first officer $20,000 a year to fly a $20 million dollar jet.

Amazing!! I just hope and pray he gets another term.

ALPA blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The FAA stood up for regionals more than Moak has. The 1500 hour rule essentially eliminates 121 carriers from being entry level jobs. For some reason ALPA is ok with pilots of 121 carriers continuing to be paid as entry level salaries.

Funny... the legacy guys are tired of funding ALPA and representing the regionals....

WalMart greeter: $10.50/hr X 160/mo = $1650

Regional First Officer flying $20 million dollar jet: $21/hr X 75hours/mo = $1575

No only is Captain Moak not banding the regionals together against this poverty wage, he is actually assisting management jam it down our throats.

Time for change. Time for a real leader. Time to stand together.

Don't blame them one bit. ALPA's days are numbered. Many regional pilots will be gladly signing cards at the majors soon helping remove ALPA remembering the joke ALPA has been at the regional level.

I personally enjoy the riviting articles that come out and drabble on about how Mesa has one of the most industry leading contracts. Or how the front page of alpa is a giant rah 170 /ATP ad. To me it show absolutely no thought into the industry. They are promoting working for nothing and going to a school where you come out with $100k in debt. Alpa national only cares about alpha national. At our MEC level its run a hell of a lot better with pilot who care, national is essentially just politicians.

It has always amused me how people who vote on and ratify poor contracts then turn around and blame ALPA National.

National didn't negotiate or accept your bad contract. YOU DID.

ALPA represents many regional carriers. If ALPA was really there for our best interests, you wouldn't have crappy airlines like PSA undercutting a fellow ALPA carrier like Eagle. ALPA is worthless!

Again, LOCAL MECs negotiate and ratify contracts. If AE ALPA lets their management get away with a PSA type contract that's on the AE MEC. No one else.

Are you clueless? That doesn't work if ALPA national doesn't have some sort of guidelines for all ALPA groups to follow in order to not lower the bar. Otherwise, you will always have PSA types lowering the bar at the thought of a quick upgrade. Yes, pilots voting in this crap are at fault. However, it starts with national. If they don't allow the concessionary crap, management has no leverage in the first place.

Yeah, I picked up my copy of ALPA from the mail, saw that ad and thought what the frack???

One of my favorite quotes is from good old Roger Cohen,“They’re paying you to fly an airplane, and that’s pretty cool.” How thoughtless.

Source: Pilot supply a major concern for regional airlines | Wichita Eagle

You obviously have NO CLUE what the function of ALPA National in negotiations is. You should get educated on the subject before posting your "opinions".

ALPA is worthless in negotiations, that's why it's time to flush that turd and get a REAL UNION. A real union will not allow undercutting. It will have a bare minimum compensation policy. (Not to mention something worthwhile for a merger policy)

Outstanding ALPA Leadership for Regionals
 

Moak is a Joke

He's up for re election in October, 2014
I hope the regionals will band together and get rid of him

Knowing what the function of ALPA National in negotiations currently is, and saying what it should be, are two completely different things. ALPA National currently has no hand whatsoever in specifying and enforcing a minimum industry contract to prevent undercutting, but it should. If MECs are left out there to their own devices, what the fark is the point of a national union?

Exactly!

The minimum starting for a first officer flying a 50 seat jet should be $50,000/yr.

Our ALPA president has no goals. No leadership. Instead of raising the bar, he works behind the scenes for management forcing concessions when there is no pilot supply.

Captain Moak does exactly what Richard Anderson tells him to do. And that is to get the regional pilots to work for minimum wage and qualify for food stamps.

And what is his pay?

My MEC is running around saying ALPA told them not to even bother requesting the standard MCF grant during negotiations that is usually used to spool up the SPC and apply pressure to the company. We are now voting on whether or not to take massive concessions while our holding company has almost a billion dollars in the bank.

Thanks Lee.

I contend that ALPA has realized they can't scope the regionals out, so now their play is to starve us to death.

I see a future where 10,000 disgruntled former regional pilots move to mainline carriers and start decertification campaigns. ALPA will reap what its sown.

Does anyone have the letter from Moak to Eagle pilots? National is consulted on negotiations. You, are the one that needs to check yourself. You would be crazy to think they didn't.

It appears that ALPA and Managements are attempting to make the regionals an undesirable place to work and exacerbating the Regional pilot shortage. More "fight another day" talk that is very disheartening.

Financing negotiations, providing legal assistance, medical assistance, affordable life and loss of licence insurance for for people who operate vehicles at high rates of speed and whose career is over if their body can't regulate blood sugar properly, government influence for safety and security issues. Nothing important I guess.:D

Lee Moak threatened the Eagle MEC during the B-scale fiasco. Fortunately they didn't give in.

However, ALPA national was creaming their pants when PSA signed an agreement that undercut Eagle and the rest of the industry.

The only threats that should have been leveled were at PSA and US Airways management.

This everyone for themselves mentality and "eat your young" that ALPA national supports is the biggest barrier to better contracts. There should be a minimum contract standard and instructions from National to all carriers not to accept concessions at all.

Instead ALPA National is more concerned with protecting their cushy 500K year a jobs then defending the carriers they are supposed to represent.

I think a better future is seeing those 10,000 regional pilots start to get more union leadership positions and change ALPA from the inside, which would be WAY easier than first decertifying ALPA and starting from scratch. If all these future former regional pilots are too lazy to decertify and start from scratch now, what makes you think they'll starting having the time and energy when they're finally making the big buck and actually have the QOL and income that affords a real life?

While I can agree that ALPA has not been the greatest in having a grand unified strategy in dealing with compensation at all levels of the 121 industry, the behinds scene work they do in safety, legal, and aeromedical work is priceless. Heaven forbid any of us ever need this kind of support:

Anybody who has "served" will tell you that changing ALPA from the inside is an impossible task.

I volunteer and I disagree.

Well there's at least one person who's disagreed with you on that point, so I guess that invalidates your statement. :D

Like you said, thousands and thousands of regional pilots are going to become legacy and major pilots over the coming decades. I for one hope that brings some change to the organization.

Semi related, it would be phenomenal if the APA, USAPA, IPA, FAPA, Teamsters 747, etc didn't exist and all 121 pilots were under one Union umbrella, whatever that looked like (and for the record I'm in favor of a future ALPA that actually has a plan).

Ever hear of CCAir?

And for the record, no contract or LOA is valid until the President of ALPA signs it.

So enlighten us how you changed ALPA during your term. This should be good.

Don't get too confident. The same weak MECs that allow these contracts to be voted on by their membership also cast votes for the President. Line pilots don't get to. Talk to your reps, and take note of how they vote. If they don't vote as their constituents want, they should be recalled.

The real pilots to blame for our current situation is the PSA NC and MEC, and the same parties at ASA. Neither one of those deals should have made it to the pilots.

Obviously Parker and other management types are to blame as well, but no one held a gun to the MEC's head and forced them to put these TAs out for a vote. That was their decision and their decision alone. The koolaid drinkers at PSA should be recalling their MEC but instead they are viewed as heroes for securing growth airplanes. I doubt anyone at ASA will be up for a recall either. Too many apathetic pilots who won't do the leg work for the recall process.

When no one is held accountable, nothing will change. Guys will chat in the jet way about how mad they are, but until the guys who are ushering in these deals are recalled and booted out of their jobs, these types of things that will continue to happen. People need to start caring about who they're elected reps are; know what they stand for. Most guys are elected via a process that 25-50% of the pilots participate in. Then these guys appoint your negotiating committee. The apples don't fall far from the tree, so start paying attention to who is running for a rep/lec position.

By that, do you mean that each MEC has a national attorney? That's true, but they're only there to make sure what you negotiate is legal. They don't offer any advice.

MECs use accounting and retirement insurance experts, but again, they're only there for fact checking and comparison.

The people who negotiate your contract and who vote on it being sent to the pilots are the MEC and the NC that they appoint. No one else.

If you think that his signature is anything more than a photo op and a occurrence that gets a paragraph in the weekly fast read, you're crazy. I doubt he knows anything beyond the cliffs notes version of what he's signing, if that.

Remember, Lee is fostering good relationships between pilots and airline management. If you think he'll rock the boat and shoot down a TA, you're also crazy.

My sense is that I am a lot older than you. More than I would like to admit.

I am no longer a member of ALPA. When I was, it was not exceptional for National to force an MEC into a different path than it would have taken on its own. To suggest that an MEC can negotiate the contract independent of National's approval is...naïve.

I worked at CCAIR for 3 years. I loved they stood up to Ornstein and told him where to put those concessions.
Unfortunately, everyone else ran scared.
For the record
He had no intention of keeping CCAir running.

ALPA allows its senior members to shed the jobs of junior members for more money. Almost all unions these days are doing that.

I don't have a "term". I'm an at-will volunteer. I chair a fairly popular committee at my company. If you want a revolution your expectations are out of line. I'm one of many volunteers trying to improve quality of life for the pilots at my company. My company has a pretty involved pilot group given our size. We have been able to weather the storm for a variety of reasons. A big reason is ALPA.

You wanna know how fuggin awesome ALPA is?

ALPA worked it into the TA that 9E signed that the pilots cannot strike. A TRADE UNION PREVENTED ITS MEMBERS FROM STRIKING.
We strike, we lose our flying. We get rid of ALPA, we lose our flying. What a joke.

Again, YOUR MEC worked it into the TA, NOT ALPA NATIONAL. How come you guys can't get this simple concept through your thick skulls? The place I used to work had a No-strike clause for years. ALPA National didn't negotiate it...we did. We traded it for pay rate stability.

In fact, National insisted the no-strike letter remain as an unpublished side letter so they wouldn't have to sign a contract with a no-strike letter in it.

Get a grip. If you have heartburn with your contract look no further than the guys you elected as your LEC officers. They elected the MEC officers and approved the Negotiating Committee members.

Your anger is misdirected.

Watch who you're calling thick there pal. I'm not an idiot, I realize there is a difference between National and Local. But the tail follows where the head leads, and the simple fact that national allows the separate MEC's to basically represent both sides of the equation with a regional and mainline partner shows how effective the organization is.

If you are a parent and your kid goes out and breaks the neighbors window, are not you responsible for the window as a parent?

So you can throw around all of the insulting remarks that you want, but the simple fact is that ALPA national is a joke of an organization, staffed by people who make entirely too much money and are at best marginally effective in creating any kind of change.

I think you need to volunteer and see the view from the other side of the fence. If you did, you'd soon realize that the B.S. tossed around by line pilots to each other is just that...B.S.

All of you guys are extremely thick.

It isn't national's job to babysit each airlines' MEC, although it seems it should be given what's happened in the last year. Each MEC is given a lot of freedom to operate as it needs to. When a representation hearing comes up, they handle it. No phone calls to Mommy. When they are negotiating, no handholding. Each MEC is free to set whatever goals they want, or agree to whatever concessions they feel they need to. Case in point Pinnacle and PSA.

Your dreams of a robust chain of command from ALPA national down to the committee members is a pipe dream. Each MEC operates like a city. The federal government isn't breathing down their neck each day wondering how the new park is coming along. ALPA gives them their money (via an approved budget) and sets them free, bound only by the by-laws and policy manual that ALPA and each MEC has created.

It's nothing like you assume, and that's why everyone has so much trouble accepting the fact that the real bad guys in these situations are the elected reps that sit on your same seniority list. Anger towards others (regarding terrible, concessionary contracts) is 100% misguided.

Don't misunderstand, National is a organization laden with problems and overpaid people, led by a guy who cares little for his constituents. Be that as it may, those idiots in Herndon didn't negotiate or send out the PSA or Pinnacle TA for a vote. The MECs did, and the guys THEY appointed negotiated the contracts.