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Originally Posted by Mason32
(Post 1547355)
This is correct. The Eagle leadership is getting help from places nobody would expect. It'll be public soon enough. I'd expect the company next to threaten to farm out the 47 CRJ aircraft and displace 300 Captains if their offer isn't accepted.
It's how they play the game. Trust me. To you guys this is your livelyhood and careers. To them it's a game of how much they can increase profit before the next round of golf next week. I'm retiring in two years. I'll move along to the sidelines and somebody can have my seat watching the polar caps freeze over. It's been a great career. I'm into my golf game more now anyway. I'd just like to see pilots take our profession back from the bookworms before I retire. I'd also like to see my nephew have a clear future from Eagle. If I can pass a tidbit of info along from time to time, I will. |
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 1547374)
Why make a lateral move? JetBlue is hiring at 1500 hrs, Virgin at 2500, and Spirit at 4000. Apply to all three, you have nothing to lose.
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Originally Posted by bretthull
(Post 1547525)
Those are the mins. I highly doubt JetBlue is hiring at 1500.
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Originally Posted by Mason32
(Post 1546532)
Fact remains. Eagle will be the regional to be at. All the chips are falling in place.
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Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
(Post 1547292)
Just terminated and proud of doing so.
Stay strong and vote NO. Send a message to all other regionals out there. |
Originally Posted by Pilot7
(Post 1547598)
Once L-Eagle has flowthrough for new hires, people will be leaving other regionals to come here. This means more upgrades and faster movement. I agree with Mason, L-Eagle is about the be THE place to be.
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Originally Posted by Bzzt
(Post 1547604)
I disagree with this, people knew you had flowthrough rights after summer 2011 if you got hired by October and we didn't have a rush of new hires. I think most people realize that the flowthrough agreements are secondary to a quick upgrade.
Dead wrong. Eagle had a HUGE rush of applicants in 2011. They hired over 700 pilots that year, the most ever. |
Originally Posted by Pilot7
(Post 1547614)
Dead wrong. Eagle had a HUGE rush of applicants in 2011. They hired over 700 pilots that year, the most ever.
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Originally Posted by Pilot7
(Post 1547598)
Once L-Eagle has flowthrough for new hires, people will be leaving other regionals to come here. This means more upgrades and faster movement. I agree with Mason, L-Eagle is about the be THE place to be.
I am sorry to say but I do no think this is anywhere close to being correct. Why would anyone come to Eagle if offered jobs at any other regional? Outdated aircraft that will be parked, high cost structure, AMR previously wanted to sell you but would not just as soon close you down, hugely long upgrade times... the list goes on and on. I only wish you guys over there now the best of luck, but there is no way Eagle ever becomes the place to be. That's like saying Endeavor is the next place to be because of the SSP with daddyDelta. Ain't gona happen. |
Originally Posted by What
(Post 1547460)
The threat has already been made, they already said that the EMB would be parked and the CRJs flown by lower cost competitors, this was said during the whole Comair II comment.
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Originally Posted by flylikesly
(Post 1546860)
Eagle will be parted out slowly. It will be a long slow death and people like mason32 will hold out until the end thinking great things are to come. I wish no ill will on anybody or any pilot group. But if you work for eagle now is the time to leave, eagle will sooner or later be no more
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Originally Posted by driver61
(Post 1547753)
Eagle does approx. 1400 flights a day for feed to American Airlines. What regional can pick up this flying in our current environment ? Wake up people!!
Once the 50 seaters and smaller are gone there will be fewer pilots needed to move the same amount of passengers. So really they would only need to be able to replace 1400 flights with 921 (using 50 seats as an average). With Skywest/Expressjet and Air Wisconsin having a great deal of 50 seaters that are going to be exchanged for fewer 175/900's there will be plenty of pilots available to fly those flights. Not to mention the overlap that you will see go away as hubs are shrinked or shutdown. |
Originally Posted by flyingreasemnky
(Post 1547801)
Not trying to get involved in the fray but the number of flights doesn't matter. What matters is the amount of seats. Frequency is going away for fewer flights with more seats. 8 flights a day in a 145 can easily be replaced by 5 175/900's. So that means fewer pilots overall needed. Hell, you throw in 1 MD-80/A320 flight and you can decrease the number of flights by 2.
Once the 50 seaters and smaller are gone there will be fewer pilots needed to move the same amount of passengers. So really they would only need to be able to replace 1400 flights with 921 (using 50 seats as an average). With Skywest/Expressjet and Air Wisconsin having a great deal of 50 seaters that are going to be exchanged for fewer 175/900's there will be plenty of pilots available to fly those flights. Not to mention the overlap that you will see go away as hubs are shrinked or shutdown. |
Originally Posted by What
(Post 1547169)
Explain to me how giving 60 airplanes to other regionals is going to cover 230 airplanes worth of flying over night?
You are part of what wrong with this industry, you need someone to tell you things. Go read the company financials and mainlines' SCOPE to understand that there will be over 200 RJs parked over the next 2 years. But I fail to see where there would be a surplus of pilots at the regional level. Last I checked the RJs aren't being replaced on a 1-1 basis but the pilots leaving outpace the number of pilots incoming by a large margin. RAH who has been hiring the most has not been able to grow its seniority list by much and has already said they will sacrifice 50 seaters for the Ejets in 2014 if they are unable to grow their list by 500 pilots. Do you think there is a coincidence of hiring at the legacy level with rip lanes parking at the regional level? For example at Eagle they are offering unrestricted flow after September, well September happens to be when the E140 start being parked. But they are likely to park them sooner but have to restrict the flow as RAH is unable to fully staff all the flying they do for AA. Eagle can't be shut down over night due to market forces as well as contract language that protects furloughs. I do understand that they can violate those contract provision but they can do the same with the new commitments they are offering. It would take them years to shut the operation down. And if they do it mainly by shifting the flying to mainline then that's exactly what we want but the next 800 eagle guys hired at AA aren't part of just a contract provision but a court order and that's not as easy to violate. |
Originally Posted by What
(Post 1547813)
Will the regional replace the number of pilots leaving with new hires? I hear RAH hasn't been able to grow their SL much over 100 number while hiring hundreds and that's in 2013, the hiring in 2014 is projected to increase by 200% to 300%. There is a reason why 300 or so 50 seaters will be parked over the next 2 years. The regionals might be able to hire about 25% of the pilots leaving out the door.
It is true RAH can barely staff its airline as their seniority list has only grown 90 pilots from March to December despite hiring 293 pilots in that time (364 pilots were hired for all of 2013). More than likely if the options for the additional 47 175's are exercised, CHQ will be shut down to staff it. But they aren't the real threat as RAH already has a majority of 70 seaters. Anyplace with a large amount of 145's/200's will be losing a great deal of flying and will have plenty of pilots to staff new flying. Or like in the case of Skywest, they own their 200's and could easily repaint them like they already have. I have not heard of Skywest having a class with no shows yet. Heck even Mesa hasn't been having trouble staffing as of late since the announcement of the 175's. I do agree that its going to get harder and harder to staff at the regional level as real hiring at the majors increases. However, I do not think it would be a problem for Eagle's flying to easily be replaced quickly as they were already planning on reducing it for 2014. Look how fast ACA or Colgan were replaced. Also, Air Wisconsin needs something for after 2015 and could take on a new type like the 175 or more CRJ's like the 900 rather quickly. I bet it could even be at exchange rate of 2:1 or 3:1 and still get them to terminate their 200 contract early. Or because they are privately held, their owner could shut it down overnight and cash out. Than those pilots will need someplace to go until they can get picked up by mainline. So to sum up, Eagle's current flying could easily be replaced in less than a year's time. My prediction is that if Eagle pilot's sign the concessionary deal, they will go down to ~60 ERJ's and than be sold off to RAH. There is more than likely a reason that an Eagle exec was just placed on RAH's board. |
Originally Posted by flyingreasemnky
(Post 1548216)
Just do the math on an airline like Expressjet which currently flies ~251 EMB's (9 of which are 135's) and 106 CRJ-200's (including 11 for American). United/Delta must park most almost all of those that they fly along with almost all of Skywest's CRJ-200 fleet (158 including 12 for American) because of the contract they signed with their pilot groups. Those planes will not be replaced at 1:1 rate so they will have a glut of pilots with nothing to fly. They are the ones who could easily take on Eagle's flying.
It is true RAH can barely staff its airline as their seniority list has only grown 90 pilots from March to December despite hiring 293 pilots in that time (364 pilots were hired for all of 2013). More than likely if the options for the additional 47 175's are exercised, CHQ will be shut down to staff it. But they aren't the real threat as RAH already has a majority of 70 seaters. Anyplace with a large amount of 145's/200's will be losing a great deal of flying and will have plenty of pilots to staff new flying. Or like in the case of Skywest, they own their 200's and could easily repaint them like they already have. I have not heard of Skywest having a class with no shows yet. Heck even Mesa hasn't been having trouble staffing as of late since the announcement of the 175's. I do agree that its going to get harder and harder to staff at the regional level as real hiring at the majors increases. However, I do not think it would be a problem for Eagle's flying to easily be replaced quickly as they were already planning on reducing it for 2014. Look how fast ACA or Colgan were replaced. Also, Air Wisconsin needs something for after 2015 and could take on a new type like the 175 or more CRJ's like the 900 rather quickly. I bet it could even be at exchange rate of 2:1 or 3:1 and still get them to terminate their 200 contract early. Or because they are privately held, their owner could shut it down overnight and cash out. Than those pilots will need someplace to go until they can get picked up by mainline. So to sum up, Eagle's current flying could easily be replaced in less than a year's time. My prediction is that if Eagle pilot's sign the concessionary deal, they will go down to ~60 ERJ's and than be sold off to RAH. There is more than likely a reason that an Eagle exec was just placed on RAH's board. I still think you are missing my point, in our contract there are 2,700 pilots furlough protected, it will be interesting how this company can shut down Eagle in a short period of time and violate SCOPE while they are profitable to include Eagle. Management is not saying Eagle isn't profitable, they are making arguments that come 2015 when Delta does their adjustments they will be at a disadvantage. There is more here than just one group taking a few airplanes. I fully see AirWisky jumping in the picture soon specially as the slots in DCA and LGA are sold and also PDT as they park airframes, But there is much more than just swapping airplanes around. I have seen management violate contract provision on a daily basis so I don't know how well a furlough protection would pan out but it's something that is there and has to be accounted for. |
Originally Posted by driver61
(Post 1547753)
Eagle does approx. 1400 flights a day for feed to American Airlines. What regional can pick up this flying in our current environment ? Wake up people!!
Once the 50 seaters and smaller are gone there will be fewer pilots needed to move the same amount of passengers. So really they would only need to be able to replace 1400 flights with 921 (using 50 seats as an average). With Skywest/Expressjet and Air Wisconsin having a great deal of 50 seaters that are going to be exchanged for fewer 175/900's there will be plenty of pilots available to fly those flights. Not to mention the overlap that you will see go away as hubs are shrinked or shutdown. The 145's will not leave Eagle until at least 2022. They will be drawn down to a much smaller number, but they will remain for the smaller markets. |
Originally Posted by What
(Post 1548229)
I didn't know that United has to park most of their 50 seaters, you might want to go review SCOPE again, then come back and lecture me how SKW inc must park most of the 50 seaters.
I still think you are missing my point, in our contract there are 2,700 pilots furlough protected, it will be interesting how this company can shut down Eagle in a short period of time and violate SCOPE while they are profitable to include Eagle. Management is not saying Eagle isn't profitable, they are making arguments that come 2015 when Delta does their adjustments they will be at a disadvantage. There is more here than just one group taking a few airplanes. I fully see AirWisky jumping in the picture soon specially as the slots in DCA and LGA are sold and also PDT as they park airframes, But there is much more than just swapping airplanes around. I have seen management violate contract provision on a daily basis so I don't know how well a furlough protection would pan out but it's something that is there and has to be accounted for. For the first 10 aircraft above 153 (71-76) seat aircraft,United must reduce by 27 (50) seat aircraft. For the next 10 (71-76) aircraft above 163, United must reduce by an additional 28 (50) seat aircraft. For the next 10 (71-76) aircraft above 173, United must reduce by an additional 29 (50) seat aircraft. For the next 10 (71-76) aircraft above 183, United must reduce by an additional 30 (50) seat aircraft. For the next 20 (71-76) aircraft above 193, United must reduce by an additional 62 (50) seat aircraft. For the next 10 (71-76) aircraft above 213, United must reduce by an additional 46 (50) seat aircraft. I'm not arguing about your furlough protection, I'm talking solely about whether the flying could be replaced. My initial post was to regards to somone's post regarding 1400 flights a day not being able to be replaced. Besides when has any airline management actually followed a legally binding contract. |
Originally Posted by Mason32
(Post 1548256)
As an FYI,
The 145's will not leave Eagle until at least 2022. They will be drawn down to a much smaller number, but they will remain for the smaller markets. |
Originally Posted by flyingreasemnky
(Post 1548258)
United's new scope is once the maximum number of (71-76) seat regional aircraft is reached (223) the maximum limit of 50 seat regional jets will have been capped down to 125. This is what would provide the Hard-Cap of 450 Regional Aircraft. Before they hit the limit of 223 70-seaters:
For the first 10 aircraft above 153 (71-76) seat aircraft,United must reduce by 27 (50) seat aircraft. For the next 10 (71-76) aircraft above 163, United must reduce by an additional 28 (50) seat aircraft. For the next 10 (71-76) aircraft above 173, United must reduce by an additional 29 (50) seat aircraft. For the next 10 (71-76) aircraft above 183, United must reduce by an additional 30 (50) seat aircraft. For the next 20 (71-76) aircraft above 193, United must reduce by an additional 62 (50) seat aircraft. For the next 10 (71-76) aircraft above 213, United must reduce by an additional 46 (50) seat aircraft. I'm not arguing about your furlough protection, I'm talking solely about whether the flying could be replaced. My initial post was to regards to somone's post regarding 1400 flights a day not being able to be replaced. Besides when has any airline management actually followed a legally binding contract. Mesa and RAH are hiring, currently they are hiring but the numbers coming in the door are similar to those going out the door. PSA is in the same situation, will they get to grow their SN list, i bet they will but will it be enough to grow the airline 100% like they are planing onto, doubling the airline's size? It means these two airlines are planing to hire 1000 pilots next year. RAH said already they will sacrifice their 50 seaters to staff the Ejets. They are talking about getting another 30 or so next year. So if they shut down CHQ they still have to hire to maintain numbers for attrition. Just these 3 airlines are looking at hiring well over 1000 new hires. Serious question, do you think there will be enough pilots out there to staff all this growth flying? American 300+ Delta 500+ United 500+ JetBlue 250+ Spirit ??? Virgin, they got new routes so I bet they will hire as well Cargo, 135, fractional???? Regional retirements???? The gest of the PSA contract and the Eagle offer is to lock in the pilots at rates for the next 10 years under the AAG umbrella and entice new hires with flow while the other airlines jockey for new hires with $$$. Mesa and RAH are looking at contracts improvements? Why is that? |
Originally Posted by flyingreasemnky
(Post 1548260)
Is this based on a company provision in the concessionary TA they are offering? What prevents the 50 seaters from being flown by Skywest/Expressjet, Air Wisconsin, Commutair, Piedmont or PSA?
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Originally Posted by What
(Post 1547813)
Will the regional replace the number of pilots leaving with new hires? I hear RAH hasn't been able to grow their SL much over 100 number while hiring hundreds and that's in 2013, the hiring in 2014 is projected to increase by 200% to 300%. There is a reason why 300 or so 50 seaters will be parked over the next 2 years. The regionals might be able to hire about 25% of the pilots leaving out the door.
It is true RAH can barely staff its airline as their seniority list has only grown 90 pilots from March to December despite hiring 293 pilots in that time (364 pilots were hired for all of 2013). More than likely if the options for the additional 47 175's are exercised, CHQ will be shut down to staff it. But they aren't the real threat as RAH already has a majority of 70 seaters. Anyplace with a large amount of 145's/200's will be losing a great deal of flying and will have plenty of pilots to staff new flying. Or like in the case of Skywest, they own their 200's and could easily repaint them like they already have. I have not heard of Skywest having a class with no shows yet. Heck even Mesa hasn't been having trouble staffing as of late since the announcement of the 175's. I do agree that its going to get harder and harder to staff at the regional level as real hiring at the majors increases. However, I do not think it would be a problem for Eagle's flying to easily be replaced quickly as they were already planning on reducing it for 2014. Look how fast ACA or Colgan were replaced. Also, Air Wisconsin needs something for after 2015 and could take on a new type like the 175 or more CRJ's like the 900 rather quickly. I bet it could even be at exchange rate of 2:1 or 3:1 and still get them to terminate their 200 contract early. Or because they are privately held, their owner could shut it down overnight and cash out. Than those pilots will need someplace to go until they can get picked up by mainline. So to sum up, Eagle's current flying could easily be replaced in less than a year's time. My prediction is that if Eagle pilot's sign the concessionary deal, they will go down to ~60 ERJ's and than be sold off to RAH. There is more than likely a reason that an Eagle exec was just placed on RAH's board. There won't be any pilots to take that replacement flying. |
Originally Posted by SebastianDesoto
(Post 1547000)
I think people look past Cape Air. There is a company with solid reputation. If you already have jet time, getting more PIC time at a company like that might be better than lateral. It's not TPIC, but you might develop a better attitude and get a little better pay check.
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Originally Posted by Mason32
(Post 1549681)
You need to review the mainline retirements. It picks up this year. Over the next 4 years 9,000 pilots will be hired at legacies. Where do you think those pilots will come from?
There won't be any pilots to take that replacement flying. In your opinion, what would APA need in order to expend the capital required to put us on one list? Have you heard any news on how talks are progressing? I personally don't think this last proposal will see the light of day. So of its killed by our MEC, where does that leave Eagle and APA? TC |
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