Lateral moves from Eagle?
 

Actually looking for a little advice here. I have heard many horror stories of lateral moves not working and typically standing pat at your current regional works best, but I'm considering the idea given Eagle's new future (or lack thereof).

The way I see it anyone with a seniority number > 2000 is looking at a pretty uncertain future. Even if the concessions are voted in (god forbid) we're still looking at a fleet of 107 aircraft (47 CRJ / 60 ERJ) which is significantly smaller than what we have today. This means that even with the flow our relative seniority will stagnate until the staffing reaches levels more in line with that fleet size, in short upgrades are still quite a way off. As to the flow even at 50% of new hire classes we're looking at 6 years and 4000 pilots minimum hired at AA before our number is called (assuming the agreement goes as written).

So compare that to places like:
Skywest (stability)
Compass (playing the upgrade lottery)
PSA...haha just kidding

What do you guys think? Is it time to abandon ship? Thanks for the responses.

In think you should stay right there. I bet you'll really regret it when you see the final product from these talks

I want to believe this but I can't imagine management straying too far from their initial proposal.

I'm currently out on a trip with a captain who made a lateral move after 7 years (5 of being a captain) at another regional because he anticipatied things going way downhill fast for him there. He was right and it ended up being a good move for him. He wouldn't have fared well at his first regional. I'm sure there are hundreds of other people who have taken that gamble and lost it though too. The airlines are unpredictable and the regionals are even more unpredictable. If you do make a lateral move it will be a gamble. It could work out great or you could regret it in 10 years.

I came to the same conclusion and I'm leaving Eagle in January to go to Compass.

You've been correct before, even calling almost the exact proposal we just received from management. I would really like to believe something good is in store for us at Eagle, ideally something involving AA, but you know the proposal and the math of the current flow, it doesn't add up.

What I'm wondering is, do you have some concrete information we just don't know yet? Or is this betting on the outcome that APA gets those 175s? A lot is up in the air, hopefully it gets resolved sooner rather than later.

Lateral moves from Eagle?
 

I stayed at Comair till the end. If I had it to do over again I would have left at the first sign of trouble. All of my friends that bailed early are captains and I am swinging their gear.

Yes.......

You also were in a market with an oversupply of pilots. An airline with average pilot age of 57. An airline that held a strike. An airline with a damaged name from a high profile accident. Had they kept you, you'd be in the middle of massive hiring due to mandatory retirements, have tons of employees collecting retirement benefits, all in the onset of a pilot shortage.
You were replaced by a much younger and cheaper regional. That dynamic probably wouldn't line up just right again in any of our lifetimes.

Come to SKW, I need more people junior to me. :D
Seriously, sometimes when you see the writing on the wall, you need to read it and take heed.

I left eagle 9 months after AA declared BK and being displaced form 2 AC and 3 bases . I haven't looked back since , holding a line now I couldn't say more . while my buddies there still sit on reserve . hope the best for you guys

an email was sent out that they want those planes on AA side and have eagle join their seniority, according to an aa captain on my flight home the other night!

Just curious, those who left Eagle, where did you go?

Mason, you're so full of it it's laughable. An average age of 57? It was Comair not USAir. A high profile accident? Yes, but what about Roselawn? Massive retirements? I'd have to get my old contract out to dispute your fuzzy math but there were plenty of younger people at Comair who joined when they were in their late twenties and early thirties. I don't think management was sitting around a boardroom table trying to figure out what to do about he retirements. And "tons of employees collecting retirement benefits"... What exactly do you mean besides the employees taking what was in their 401k plan? Did Comair have some defined benefit program that was only for those with membership in the secret society?

You shouldn't do that

Pipe dream I'm afraid.

Why not? There are people here at Compass who have come from various different airlines, some as a lateral move and some because of furlough. Most people I talk to are very happy with their decision to come here. I'm part of the Endeavor exodus that came to Compass which sounds like a very similar situation (dwindling fleet, poor cba and low seniority) and I can say I am very content with my choice. With LAX as the junior base it sounds like it won't be a difficult commute for wayway, but I'd probably think a home base at SkyWest would be more attractive.

Anyone making a lateral move in the current atmosphere of consolidation between regional carriers won't know if they've made the right choice for a few years. I'd roll the dice if you can live and work in the same city and stay put if you already do.

...that's what I said!!!

Let me help you with facts a little.

People are under the illusion that the 47 CR7 that AE operates are here to stay as they are not set for retirement but that is far from the truth. Those airplanes can me shifted to another operator at will, AE no longer owns the airplanes or the right to follow the airplanes. The proposal is for a fleet of 60 E175s guarantee. The rest of the fleet wouldn't be guaranteed. Management has threatened to retire the EMB and send the CRJs to other carriers and make Eagle "Comair II".

So don't plan on 107 airplanes but rather 60 if this passes. If it doesn't then plan on 0 airframes but with that being said a lateral move in our current environment isn't guaranteed to be a successful one. Right now management is placing the same threat they did to Pinnacle in Bk and is using PSA to help drive pressure.

Let them attempt to place the airframes elsewhere and close shop, we have flow provisions and furlough protections that Pinnacle didn't have. I understand that theses are clauses in the contract and that their adherence isn't guaranteed but the same can be said for the fleet promise and new flow.

Don't play their game and stand up for yourselves, we are worth more and they need us. You will continue to get kicked in the nutzzzz until you punch them in the face.

L-AE will disappear in 2years or less. Fly FM1 more than ever, the PAX will thank you!

You can either go out on your own terms, or get pushed out. If you can get a good job now, take it. Its better taking the first job that come up out of desperation because you are jobless.

Bingo. And I think you guys actually have more leverage than you think.

I left 9E (Endeavor) as soon as the writing hit the wall. Many of my friends / co-workers did not. Many stayed because of the pipe dreams fed to them by management and senior guys with a lot of false hope.

Because I got out quick and with a little luck I landed on my feet. I have been a line holder in the left seat since I came on property and now have my 1000+ TPIC that I would have NEVER gotten at 9E. If I would have stayed one week longer I would have missed my class date, waited till the next one, never held a line and still be 500+ short on my TPIC. My buddy who told me I was crazy and 9E would be fine just left for a lateral move...

Point is lateral moves are not always bad. Many guys are terrified of lateral moves because of the what if's and false hopes, but if you make a calculated, educated, well thought out choice (DO YOUR RESEARCH! A lot of times the popular choice isn't the right one) you just may land on your feet and be thanking your lucky stars that you bailed...

Do what our new hire did, try something out of the box. He left a CRJ F/O seat for corporate. Depending on how you think of your odds of getting legacy, you set yourself up better-TPIC, International experience, more money for sure. This guy now has a spanking new TR, will upgrade and lives where he wants. A couple of our ex-RJ guys are living the dream--condo in big city, girlfriends to spend on and whole new outlook. They're young enough to take a try at the legacies in a year or two, if they want.

GF

If I leave soon it will be to compass. I've done some research and it feels right but at the same time the upgrade over there is based on a DAL flow. Being an Eagle pilot I know how fickle those can be.

I'm an Eagle guy and I'm juggling the same thoughts. I live within an hour of the ORD employee lot, but have never been a line holder. I don't quite have the time for Spirit, JetBlue, or Virgin; nor do I know many people at other airlines for recommendations. It seems like a move to any regional that has a Chicago base would be a gamble. Compass appears to be a decent place. However, I have no intention of picking up my life and moving so I would be commuting for sure.

It's been a nasty week of unpleasant news, but I definitely want to see how negotiations progress before making any decisions. As "ruthless" as the USAir management are painted to be, I feel strongly that we are in a better position than October 2012 to get more than the garbage we were offered.

In any case, it's Christmas time. I won't let this interfere with my time with my family before I my early signing tomorrow. Merry Christmas to everyone, especially those who cannot be home tonight. Best wishes this holiday season.

DUI Douggie and pals make old AMR look like Santa Claus. I still have no idea what APA was thinking getting in bed with these guys. I wouldn't be surprised at all if AAG ends up BK again in a few years if they don't get what they want from APA.

On the contrary; they specifically do look at retirements. In your case; projections placed them in the position of having to do significant hiring in the midst of a pilot shortage. Based upon current events; they were correct.

Fact remains. Eagle will be the regional to be at. All the chips are falling in place.

Yeah the Eagle Brand will be……:rolleyes:

While I do think you know what you're talking about I will have to make a decision soon and it's hard to feed my family based on conjecture.

Bzzt...Do what's best for you and your family. They come first. Being selfish in situations like this is best. Remember, no one else except YOU will take care of them.

Not even your pilot brotherhood. F them.

Why did your MEC go meet in Dallas when the proposal was being delivered in DC? Do you really think it was just for a meeting with the new CEO who suddenly cancelled before any of them had even left from home to go to Dallas? Who else was in Dallas at the same time?

Who else was in Dallas the last time (4 months ago) that your MEC also went to Dallas?

Make your own decision. I can lead you to water, but I can't drink it for you.

Yeah, for some reason I think the MEC is not being truthful to us.

I honestly don't know who was in Dallas

I think they prefer it that way for now.

Well then they're doing a good job. Considering were out of BK now I don't see the need for secrecy though.

Sometimes you can't spill your beans, that way management can't attack.

If this is the only way they can bring us a good deal it's ok with me. I have more faith with this MEC than the last one. Let's give them a chance.

Good luck with the compass interview (for real).

Mason,
To reply to you is thread drift but I must comment on your willingness to throw out whatever "facts" you feel like to make a point.

If the average age of the pilot group at Comair was 57 as you state then that means for every pilot who was 29, 4 were 64. Are you actually suggesting 8 of 10 pilots were 64?

As Republic, Express Jet, Compass and others continue to demonstrate they are certainly able to staff their airlines today. Comair management would certainly have been able to hire replacements for the mandatory retirements. Whether or not they could have hired for a sinking ship is another story.

Comair ceased to exist simply because it was in managements best interest to shut it down and continue the whipsaw with everyone else. The race to the bottom is real and Eagle might not be the next but someone will be. The entire regional business in the US is nothing but a giant "B" or even "C" scale.

There isn't a regional in the US where I would consider staying for longer than absolutely necessary.

Wake up.

1st you obviously have zero evidence or knowledge of the actual staffing situations at the airlines your discussing. Hiring is but one part of the equation. None of them are retaining pilots at acceptable rates to staff their own flying; let alone any new flying.
Why do you think so many managements are after contract amendments outside of bankruptcy and section six right now? They already know what you refuse to accept. There aren't enough pilots already at regionals.

2nd if it was in managements best interest to continue a whipsaw then they would not remove an entire airline from the equation. They'd have kept a small Comair around to aid the whipsaw. Had they done that, they'd be left with the top half of your seniority list only. Then they'd be replacing them in the middle of this crunch. Your logic is flawed.

Back to Eagle.
There is nobody to replace Eagle with. They could move some flying successfully to Piedmont as replacement flying as they park the older turboprops. However, nobody is capable of accepting any real growth flying.
There are two plans for Eagle. One is much better than the other; however both provide continued employment.

The kid asked if he should stay or go.
The short answer is; stay.