Eagle: FAQs for AIP
02-11-2014 | 06:56 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 419
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From: rabble rouser
What we lose if the AIP gets voted in.
Example
1. We have a $36.4 million dollar credit that the company is obligated to pay the pilots at the 2016 amendment round. What we gave in BK we get back. AIP negates this and asks for further now permanent concessions.
2. Our perdiem will be at $2.30 in 2025. AIP $1.80 frozen. $11000 dollar loss per pilot for the 10 year duration.
3. IAI for 2015 increase will include IAI excess of 1.5% for 2013/2014. AIP loses that make up difference and freezes wages untill 2018 with a small increase of 1% every year after 2018.
4. We have one of the best turboprop pay rates in the industry. We give that up in the AIP with nothing in return.
5. 170 aircraft minimum may be reduced by the company.
6. PBS to be implemented at the 61st E175. Currently it would go to pilot ratification. If we get the treatened pay cut we could get it back in 2016 with the $36.4 million dollar credit.
7. 10 year duration. Need I say more.
And the biggest lie,
8. Enhanced flow through.
There is nothing enhanced about it. It is the same rate we currently have. However, currently it is an arbitration award that cannot be modified by the company. If we ament it to the AIP the company can and will violate this, as this now becomes part of the AIP contract.
All of these sacrifices and we get nothing in return. Nothing. Zilch, Nada.
The only reason people are inclined to vote yes is the fear of us closing up. But, that could happen regardless of the AIP vote outcome since there is no contractual guarantee in this AIP which will ensure the continued operation of this airline.
Example
1. We have a $36.4 million dollar credit that the company is obligated to pay the pilots at the 2016 amendment round. What we gave in BK we get back. AIP negates this and asks for further now permanent concessions.
2. Our perdiem will be at $2.30 in 2025. AIP $1.80 frozen. $11000 dollar loss per pilot for the 10 year duration.
3. IAI for 2015 increase will include IAI excess of 1.5% for 2013/2014. AIP loses that make up difference and freezes wages untill 2018 with a small increase of 1% every year after 2018.
4. We have one of the best turboprop pay rates in the industry. We give that up in the AIP with nothing in return.
5. 170 aircraft minimum may be reduced by the company.
6. PBS to be implemented at the 61st E175. Currently it would go to pilot ratification. If we get the treatened pay cut we could get it back in 2016 with the $36.4 million dollar credit.
7. 10 year duration. Need I say more.
And the biggest lie,
8. Enhanced flow through.
There is nothing enhanced about it. It is the same rate we currently have. However, currently it is an arbitration award that cannot be modified by the company. If we ament it to the AIP the company can and will violate this, as this now becomes part of the AIP contract.
All of these sacrifices and we get nothing in return. Nothing. Zilch, Nada.
The only reason people are inclined to vote yes is the fear of us closing up. But, that could happen regardless of the AIP vote outcome since there is no contractual guarantee in this AIP which will ensure the continued operation of this airline.
02-11-2014 | 07:38 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
I got that the mgmt is trying to do their job. They have something to offer and want something in return. If they were paying $12 a gallon for jet-A everyone would be screaming that they're incompetent because market rates are not that high, for that resource. So for them, market rates for labor, just another resource, have been capped recently at 12/4. I mean they are probably going to spend 4 Billion on this fleet.
I personally think it’s somewhat of a joke that they, mgmt, think that what has been negotiated has any chance of passing. I would not vote for it given the opportunity. I think the idea of a Comair 2 is more of a joke than a serious rumor, it took Delta 11 years to wind down Comair, and how much did they save by sending the frames to ASA which is senior pilot group. I think Comair was unique because they bought that company for 2 Billion and it blew up in their face for many reasons.
I personally think it’s somewhat of a joke that they, mgmt, think that what has been negotiated has any chance of passing. I would not vote for it given the opportunity. I think the idea of a Comair 2 is more of a joke than a serious rumor, it took Delta 11 years to wind down Comair, and how much did they save by sending the frames to ASA which is senior pilot group. I think Comair was unique because they bought that company for 2 Billion and it blew up in their face for many reasons.
02-11-2014 | 05:15 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
I'm approaching 1500 hours and trying to decide where to go with quite a bit of caution. I've paid a lot of money, spent a lot of time, blood, and sweat to get to where I am, and if I can't be compensated appropriately, going to the regionals is not even in consideration as I've already got a decent aviation job. So many regionals are entirely out of the running due to the way they operate, treat and pay pilots - there's zero chance I'd go to Republic or Mesa, for example. If this AIP is voted in, it's going to be very tough for the company to attract pilots like me when I basically have my pick of the litter - why wouldn't I go where I get the best QoL and pay? So many of my friends have been 7+ year FOs, I sure as heck am not going to count on any kind of flow through agreement. I can tell you that making poverty wages for an uncertain amount of time because of some stick and carrot on a moving target is not going to attract myself, or other pilots like myself that are sitting on the fences trying to decide to go with the regionals or continue our aviation careers in other directions. So I guess the point I'm trying to make is.. I think we pilots ought to know what we're worth and if Eagle agrees to a very poor 10 year concessionary contract, I think it'll be extremely tough to recruit pilots like me, which means cancelled flying like Republic or Lakes when you can't staff the airplanes. Sorry if that comes off as cocky or something, that's not how I intend it, it's just... I can go anywhere, so if you really want to attract me, good pay, benefits, QoL are the way to do it as well as some kind of career progression path.
Guys like Brian Bedford will never understand that - they think the answer is just simply changing the law back so they can simply hire less experienced people. And I admit, sure, at 300 hours if you would have put me in the right seat in a shiny jet, I probably would have done it for less. I had a lot less invested at that point - but nearing 1500, I've been slogging it out for awhile now doing grunt work, I've paid some dues (even if I have more to go), and not being treated appropriately is not that appealing.
Guys like Brian Bedford will never understand that - they think the answer is just simply changing the law back so they can simply hire less experienced people. And I admit, sure, at 300 hours if you would have put me in the right seat in a shiny jet, I probably would have done it for less. I had a lot less invested at that point - but nearing 1500, I've been slogging it out for awhile now doing grunt work, I've paid some dues (even if I have more to go), and not being treated appropriately is not that appealing.
02-11-2014 | 06:50 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,870
Likes: 117
I'm approaching 1500 hours and trying to decide where to go with quite a bit of caution. I've paid a lot of money, spent a lot of time, blood, and sweat to get to where I am, and if I can't be compensated appropriately, going to the regionals is not even in consideration as I've already got a decent aviation job. So many regionals are entirely out of the running due to the way they operate, treat and pay pilots - there's zero chance I'd go to Republic or Mesa, for example. If this AIP is voted in, it's going to be very tough for the company to attract pilots like me when I basically have my pick of the litter - why wouldn't I go where I get the best QoL and pay? So many of my friends have been 7+ year FOs, I sure as heck am not going to count on any kind of flow through agreement. I can tell you that making poverty wages for an uncertain amount of time because of some stick and carrot on a moving target is not going to attract myself, or other pilots like myself that are sitting on the fences trying to decide to go with the regionals or continue our aviation careers in other directions. So I guess the point I'm trying to make is.. I think we pilots ought to know what we're worth and if Eagle agrees to a very poor 10 year concessionary contract, I think it'll be extremely tough to recruit pilots like me, which means cancelled flying like Republic or Lakes when you can't staff the airplanes. Sorry if that comes off as cocky or something, that's not how I intend it, it's just... I can go anywhere, so if you really want to attract me, good pay, benefits, QoL are the way to do it as well as some kind of career progression path.
Guys like Brian Bedford will never understand that - they think the answer is just simply changing the law back so they can simply hire less experienced people. And I admit, sure, at 300 hours if you would have put me in the right seat in a shiny jet, I probably would have done it for less. I had a lot less invested at that point - but nearing 1500, I've been slogging it out for awhile now doing grunt work, I've paid some dues (even if I have more to go), and not being treated appropriately is not that appealing.
Guys like Brian Bedford will never understand that - they think the answer is just simply changing the law back so they can simply hire less experienced people. And I admit, sure, at 300 hours if you would have put me in the right seat in a shiny jet, I probably would have done it for less. I had a lot less invested at that point - but nearing 1500, I've been slogging it out for awhile now doing grunt work, I've paid some dues (even if I have more to go), and not being treated appropriately is not that appealing.
Thanks for your point of view. I hope management could see it.
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