What?

THE UNION is US, and we negotiate with mgt to get as much as we can. I guarantee that your Negotiating Committee has never told mgt "thanks for the offer, but that's too much." Should your company approach your union and say that they'd like to raise the pay for FOs, I really think your union would sign that LOA pretty fast.

If on the other hand your mgt were to approach your union and say we think our Capts are paid too much, and our FOs are paid too little, so we want our Capts and our FOs to all make ~$55/ hr, your union had better not sign that. That is GLA Capt. pay rates and they can't keep pilots either.

Regional FOs aren't overly compensated, but regional Capts aren't either. Taking from one to give to the other doesn't solve the problem.

Iowa Farm Boy,

Who comes up with the pay scale? Union or airline?

My understanding is that the union comes up with the pay scale. Is this not true? If it is true, then entertain this. Say the airline gives the union X currently. But they want to up the FO pay by giving the union X + Y. Will Y all go to FO or will senior captains complain that the FOs are getting a pay raise but they are not?

Given the captain pay scales, I don't think regional captains are underpaid. Captains are getting paid a liveable wage. If you're a captain and making over $100k, I have zero sympathy for you. If they want to make more, then they can move on to the legacies/majors and get that pay. My understanding of that is, many regional captains are fat and happy where they are given the pay/days off/schedule and are not happy about moving on because they'll take a pay cut and get back on reserve schedule. Sounds to me like they're getting paid enough at the regional to not move on.

Yes they absolutely will, and have, complained.

The whole company specific seniority based pay scales that airlines have adopted, in large part due to union negotiation, are bullshhh. What other industry has this structure? We pilots have put us in this predicament. It makes it so ridiculously disadvantageous to make a "lateral move" that there is no competition between employers to attract our professionalism.

Seniority should affect your bid status, vacation, and that's about it. My opinion: Regional pay - First year FO pay rates that equate to a minimum of roughly $45,000/year. Every subsequnt year $65,000. Upgrade to captain and make roughly $80,000 for a year, then $100,000 thereafter. Everyone in each respective seat should be at the same pay rate. You all do the same job. Raises could then be applied "evenly." Management would have a more stable and predictable cost structure regardless of the seniority of the pilot group. Making a lateral move would not be so unattractive.

Will this ever happen? Probably not. Why'd I just waste 10 minutes? Good question.

Please...stay away from our industry until you have done research that goes beyond this forum. You have no clue as to what you're saying. Please do more homework before you step foot into a 121 operation.

Actually, he has a bit of a point. I wouldn't be so harsh so quickly.

Back When I upgraded as a 7 year Capt I made more as a first officer. Making around 60 my first year. So to say captains make a liveable wage is ludicrous. The regional I was at was notorious for being one of the highest paid. I say notorious because management continued asking for pay cuts. A first year first officer should be making 60. You're a skilled worker with years of training and schooling, you should have respect for the job and compensation should be accordingly.

Have a look at this, this guy does a quite excellent job of summing it all up. Good read.

Unions and Airlines

Please read some of his previous post.

Looking at the pay scale of your entry level Part 121 operation, you don't have to worry about me ever getting involved.

You can sleep soundly.