Eagle AIP is alive again.
 

The MEC caved to national pressure and is passing the AIP to a pilot vote. Details still coming in. What a bunch of pu$$!es.

Again? ***! You need to recall your reps now!

APLA National applied a lot of pressure. Another example of how ALPA National is not looking out for regional pilots.

id like to see some sources.... it totally contradicts what ALPA national and Lee Moak have been saying recently. I was thinking that Moak and National finally felt the pressure and thats why they have been saying that pay needs to increase to AVOID a future shortage.

How can that work?

So if the AIP is released for a vote from the pilot group, and it's an overwhelming NO, wouldn't that be an ever more forceful rejection of the AIP than a close vote of the MEC?

Said another way, maybe the NO voters on the MEC just see this as a way to communicate a louder NO.

In short, why is sending a poor AIP to the pilot group automatically assumed to be a negative?

Whats the point of having an MEC then?

That's certainly the other side of the argument to be sure, I'm just pointing out that the voice of the vast majority of 2,000+ pilots voting NO can be a lot louder than a 5-4 MEC vote of NO.

(I think that's what the vote was anyway, I'm not an Eagle guy)

My question then is, Are the MEC officers voting on whether to send it to the pilots or are they voting on the premise that the AIP is flawed and it would need to be better? Or is it a combination thereof?

MEC vote
 

you have to think of this from management's perspective. If the MEC votes it down then the company does not have a window into how much their proposal has to be modified in order to get a majority vote from pilots. From our side, if we vote it down 80% to 20 then the company knows their proposal is nowwhere close to passing but if we vote no 51% to 49% the company know they only need to sweeten it enough to get another 1.1% to vote yes. that less than 15 pilots who need to change their vote. It like we are showing our hand. We called the company's bluff and raised, now it up to them to fold or reraise. If we go with a pilot vote they have a pretty good idea whats in our hand and can but accordingly. I prefer them to be in the dark! I dont care what they offer, Im voting NO We already signed an 8yr deal with a fleet plan promise so thats it. No airplanes then no talks, when is this pilot group gonna realize that the company has to do something, anything to prove their word is good. They'll park airplanes to let me flow, yeah right!!!

So it's the same thing the mec turned down before?

Nothing officially has popped up in my email yet so I am not even sure this is true. Could be all speculation.

How about you all just vote no?

Simple enough right?

I'm thinking it's going to pass by over 60%.

Whats going to influence people, fear or hope?

Two realities are obvious.

A. Eagle........er, Envoy pilots really don't have a union. Not really.

Individual MEC's aren't there to either rubber stamp every proposal that's put before them or to allow ALPA national to make decisions for them, yet here they do.

That is NOT a functional union.

B. ALPA national is corrupt to the bone. All one has to do is read the TWA lawsuit info to see that. Yet, here once again, they are demonstrating a dictatorial paternalism not unlike that of Vlad Putin and pressuring individual MEC members from voting their choice and forcing them to abstain from any vote.

Despicable and repugnant. The Airline Pilots Association should be dissolved and banned from the U.S. That's not likely, so unfortunately tens of thousands of suckers will have to continue line their pockets with their hard earned money and support this vile conduct for the forseeable future.

NY LEC Facebook page post from the LEC CA Rep
 

(Copy-Pasted from Facebook)

RI: The company does not think we accurately represent the real wishes of the pilots.
We have been ineffective at gaining any real significant improvements because they don't think we actually represent the majority.
They are prepared to send a batch of planes to another carrier, which is something we always knew they could try. We lost over 110 pilots since new year. If they do award that contract - even if the other airline can't staff it NEXT YEAR - what happens to Eagle in the meantime?
They refuse to negotiate improvements beyond this since they don't think we accurately represent the majority.
This is your chance to tell them we DO represent you, and that when we told them concessions won't fly, we meant it.

You sir have no merit on this forum. You and captkrunch are not welcome.

You work at psa, not eagle. So how would you know anything?

Duh, OF COURSE they don't think the MEC represents the minority because that isn't in their best interest. It's MANAGEMENT that's saying this. So now, it seems that the MANAGEMENT of Envoy is now deciding what the ALPA MEC does there ?

Jesus, they are totally out of control. :eek:

Fellow Pilots,

On Wednesday, March 5th, and Thursday, March 6th, members of the EGL ALPA leadership met with representatives of AAG in Washington, DC to discuss the impasse and how we all might be able to move forward. The parties re-engaged in conversation because we share a common goal – an agreement that provides a strong, stable labor future for the company that the pilots feel values their contribution appropriately.

The results of that meeting were presented to the full MEC. After discussion and analysis, the MEC voted to send the proposal to the pilots as a Tentative Agreement so that the pilot group can weigh-in individually on the Agreement.

Pilot ratification voting will open at 1000 EST on the 13th of March and will close at 1000 EST on the 28th of March. The schedule for the base visits is being worked out now and will be announced soon. Members in good standing will be allowed to vote, and voting will be through the ALPA.org website. We will make the actual language of the TA available to the pilot group as soon as possible and will also include a comparison so that everyone will be able to determine the value of the improvements.

As I have committed from the beginning, this TA will be evaluated based on its merits. We will explain the dynamics of how it works and present you with the facts of the Agreement. I encourage you to engage your local representatives and provide your perspective.

Fly safe.

B S

The company's take.
 

Friday, March 7, 2014



Special Eaglewire

Tentative Agreement to be Sent to Our Pilots for Ratification Vote

Dear Team,

I am pleased to report ALPA’s American Eagle Master Executive Council (MEC) voted today to send the Tentative Agreement (TA), formerly the Agreement in Principle, to our professional pilots for a ratification vote. We very much appreciate and thank the negotiating committee for their work on this TA, and the MEC for giving our pilots the opportunity to vote on their and our future.

If ratified, the TA, above all, offers our pilots greater job security and unprecedented advancement opportunities. For all of the more than 14,000 people at American Eagle Airlines, soon to be Envoy, the TA will provide a solid foundation to grow our company into the best and most competitive regional carrier in our industry.

Voting on the agreement will begin soon. Should our pilots ratify it, our industry-leading flow through rights to the largest airline in the world will be significantly enhanced to a level no other carrier can match. Pilots from our company alone will make up a minimum of 50 percent, and in some cases up to 100 percent, of American’s new hire pilots each month. Our flow through will draw more new pilots to our airline, while giving our current pilots a substantial career advantage over pilots at independent regional carriers. This is something independent regional carriers simply can’t offer. It will allow our pilots to more quickly advance from first officer to captain and then on to American. With this progression, and if the TA is ratified, they will enjoy all of the benefits that come with this faster than ever before.

The agreement also offers a signing bonus and competitive pay rates. The overwhelming majority of our pilots will be able to further increase their pay following the delivery of the first new aircraft. For the recruitment of new pilots, our pay rates are going to remain comparable to those of other regional carriers for a long time and they will enjoy flow through rights, too. With our unparalleled access to pilot positions at American, we are excited about the prospect of new hire pilots joining our growing airline. The agreement also preserves the existing “no furlough” protections for our pilots. All of these elements mean that no other regional airline will be able to offer their pilots the job protections and upward mobility to a mainline airline as we will.

In addition to these pilot benefits, the agreement will allow us to upgrade our fleet with new Embraer 175 (E175) regional jets that can carry up to 76 passengers and a fleet commitment for a minimum of 170 aircraft for the duration of the 10-year agreement. The new aircraft and the fleet commitment will offer lower operating costs; a top-tier regional product for our customers; the opportunity to hire a significant number of new flight attendants; and substantial growth opportunities for teams throughout our company.

With our improved cost structure and focus on performance, we are confident we can grow well beyond our guaranteed fleet number and build a robust future for all of us. For several years the ambitious growth of our ground handling business has been the envy of our competitors. If this TA is ratified, our flying business will be evoking the same response. Our pilots will have an unmatched flow through agreement, an industry-leading fleet commitment and new large regional jets, which better meet the needs of our customers and mainline partner.

This is truly one of the most critical times in the history of our company. We encourage all of our people to learn more about what this TA, if ratified by our pilots, will offer. Please look at all the facts related to this agreement and consider the competitive environment in which we operate. We hope you will see and agree this TA is a great opportunity for our pilots and all of us at American Eagle Airlines.

As always, I commit to keeping you informed of any news and developments as it happens and thank you for all of your work on behalf of our customers and company.

Regards,

Pedro

Oh boy.....

Vote it down and shut up drunk Parker and those crooks in Herndon once and for all.

3 in favor

6 Abstaining

There is more than meets the eye

Hey don't hate me because i'm beautiful, i mean right.

I'm told that this is their intention.
6 of them completely abstained; forcing the pro concession reps - all three of them - to be the only yes votes. I don't think I've ever heard of 6 abstain votes. Pretty unified if you ask me.

Trust me. People don't hate you becaue you're beautiful. People hate you because you work for psa. Don't confuse the two.

I hate me for working at PSA.

I still voted NO. Will you?

I assume your Facebook page is private for your pilots. Is it wise to be posting this publicly where the company can see it?

Time for all the pilots to get off the toilet seat and stand up and VOTE NO.
start the grass root effort now.

Know one thing, voting yes does not stop them from coming back next year just as they did this year.

SKW got 8% pay raises and was not required to give up anything, compared to us.
RAH getting 10-20% pay raises, compared to us in there TA, being voted this month.
EJT sent a resounding NO to there management. There management is waiting to see what they have to offer after the RAH and now Eagle vote.

Flow increase, you are talking about 60 seats only and the company can hold you and make up the number at the end of the year. Flow can stop for any reason after the 824 have gone.

Voting yes guarantees nothing except that if you get stuck here you will not get any real pay raises for 10 years. Voting yes only guarantees you lose 1 week vacation if you fall into that group that does and most of you do. Voting yes guarantees 4/12 year caps for pilots with no change for 10 years and most of you will fall into to this.

Point is there are no guarantees that the flow wont stop and you will be stuck here. There are no guarantees you will get hired at a mainline and you then are stuck here.

Simple example; AA/US MOU states AAG will not transfer flying to US from AA and vise a versa. That AAG will not downsize one group while increasing the other group from transfer of flying and that all current aircraft will be flown by respective pilots. Hers the catch; It has been done before here, Eagle flying is transferred to US Airways as it is currently being done in MIA, ORD and NYC, this increases US Airways flying while decreasing Eagle flying. Now AAG transfers former AA flying to Eagle and downsizes AA through attrition. Hiring continues at US Airways (which you flow does you no good) and hiring at AA ceases or trickles at best and you are stuck here. If you think this wont happen as it is already starting, go ahead and roll the dice, but, when you are stuck here DONT WHINE because you voted yes.

Is this extreme, NO WAY. Done before to the extent AMR delayed aircraft deliveries for 2 years
to stop/delay the flow for 2 years and in the mean time hiring was at 100 a month. 2400 pilots senior now to those who should have had numbers for flow.

Company stated to the MEC that they will not improve or negotiate the AIP because they believe you will take this AIP as is. If and when VOTED DOWN with large resounding NO VOTES they will have to negotiate a better deal. Management at AAG is betting the eagle pilots are a bunch of spineless slime as they were with the bankruptcy vote.

VOTE NO hold your head high. Don't listen to those senior pilots (I am a senior pilot) who tell you to vote yes, they just want to ride the train to retirement or use you junior pilots to enhance there ability to flow to AA while you get stuck here and live under this POS AIP TA.

I am as state senior pilot, I really lose nothing in this AIP/TA but I am a NO VOTE.

VOTE NO

Vote no....hell no ! ! !

Just like you have no merit at the PSA thread yet you stuck your nose there time and time again. So I think I will stick around. If you don't want me to participate why don't you just post on eagle lounge. That $5 cover charge will surely keep guys like me out.

People are getting awfully worked up here without even seeing the language. It probably still sucks but why not at least confirm our suspicions before going on the internet crusade?

Because we aren't idiots. We know full well that it won't be good.

because nothing of importance was changed and we know this management, same as last same stripes. lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

Be Strong VOTE NO

If this is true, then your vote ends a whole 2 HOURS before the RAH vote is scheduled to end.

Coincidence much?

This will get voted down 75-80%

Every time the company says they wont come back to the table, they have come back.
Even guys who were potential Yes voters initially are beginning to see how weak the company's hand really is.
You can only cry wolf so many times before even the sheep begin to realize there is no wolf.

+ 1,000,000

well said
.........