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Originally Posted by Moonwolf
(Post 1597611)
You work at psa, not eagle. So how would you know anything?
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Originally Posted by spaaks
(Post 1597836)
they all (PSA) want someone else to take concessions so they don't have to feel so bad about stabbing everyone else in the back!
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Originally Posted by boiler07
(Post 1597632)
3 in favor
6 Abstaining There is more than meets the eye |
The DFW reps mentioned the 6 abstainees didn't vote because they considered the AIP to already be dead, but to silence managements claim they weren't allowing the pilots to speak they decided to allow the pilots to crush it once and for all. Their option was to either vote yes, or abstain in that case.
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Originally Posted by 35Right
(Post 1597874)
The DFW reps mentioned the 6 abstainees didn't vote because they considered the AIP to already be dead, but to silence managements claim they weren't allowing the pilots to speak they decided to allow the pilots to crush it once and for all. Their option was to either vote yes, or abstain in that case.
Think about this if they knew that this was (is) a big POS why not block it again? Why do they care what management says? They need to come out with the truth we deserve that. |
because your ORD and Trng reps are working against the pilots and are working for management while keeping union leadership positions. They are the problem, they carry the ball for the company, they are the traitors to the pilots.
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Originally Posted by Swedish Blender
(Post 1597849)
I would think the 6 have a lot of explaining to do. What were they threatened with to change their votes from "NO". Why change when it's obvious the company wants a deal. Make a better offer then send it to the rank and file. All rhetorical. I'm sure none of the six will answer.
What the hell are elected representatives not voting for? I wasn't aware constitution and bylaws would allow such? You get put in place to make though calls. This is one you vote on because you were elected to do such.... I know when PSA went through this there were a 2 in favor and 4 not willing to say "Yes" they support a yes vote.... Somehow it got turned into you can put it to a pilots vote and also not support it at the same time? I think that ended up getting 4-2..... Anyway I think, as much as I support ALPA, these bylaws need looked at..... Had it not been "muddy" I know PSAs TYS/DAY reps would have continued their no support stand... However this exact crap occurred allowing it to go to vote without a true endorsement of it by the MEC. |
If It doesn't pass. Airways will comair you.
If it does pass, you sold out. Pick your poison. |
Originally Posted by seafeye
(Post 1597953)
If It doesn't pass. Airways will comair you.
If it does pass, you sold out. Pick your poison. |
Originally Posted by spaaks
(Post 1597836)
they all (PSA) want someone else to take concessions so they don't have to feel so bad about stabbing everyone else in the back!
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Originally Posted by 35Right
(Post 1597874)
The DFW reps mentioned the 6 abstainees didn't vote because they considered the AIP to already be dead, but to silence managements claim they weren't allowing the pilots to speak they decided to allow the pilots to crush it once and for all. Their option was to either vote yes, or abstain in that case.
Think about this if they knew that this was (is) a big POS why not block it again? Why do they care what management says? They need to come out with the truth we deserve that. The only way to send you the deal was either to vote yes or abstain Pretty good move your guys made. And scheduling it to finish with RAH's. Genius. I can't wait to watch the evening need that day. Eagle has voted no twice already. XJT has voted no Now RAH and Eagle a third time will vote no. This is the crap they write books about. Great job guys. |
I don't work for eagle so I have no dog in the fight but its hard to believe a system is in place where the MEC can vote down a TA I guess twice now and then a couple weeks later management or national or whoever can just ask for another "vote" on the same thing. And if this seemingly hypothetical real system exists that the MEC members who's sole purpose is to be a voice for the paying members can not be made to make an official vote. Im not trying to sway anyone from voting one way or the other and if you do know anything about union laws you can see that I know very little but even I can see that something is F-UP. One thing for sure is that Bedford slept better last night, that does not please FLYZERG.
On that note I think im going to go buy 20 scratch lottery tickets. |
Originally Posted by FLYZERG
(Post 1597999)
I don't work for eagle so I have no dog in the fight but its hard to believe a system is in place where the MEC can vote down a TA I guess twice now and then a couple weeks later management or national or whoever can just ask for another "vote" on the same thing. And if this seemingly hypothetical real system exists that the MEC members who's sole purpose is to be a voice for the paying members can not be made to make an official vote. Im not trying to sway anyone from voting one way or the other and if you do know anything about union laws you can see that I know very little but even I can see that something is F-UP. One thing for sure is that Bedford slept better last night, that does not please FLYZERG.
On that note I think im going to go buy 20 scratch lottery tickets. |
Originally Posted by Westerner
(Post 1597985)
With all the Eagle pilot bluster towards PSA for taking concessions. What happens if Eagle pilots pass the new AIP? Is it still PSA pilots fault or will Eagle pilots now hate themselves and deny themselves jumpseats?
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Originally Posted by 35Right
(Post 1597874)
The DFW reps mentioned the 6 abstainees didn't vote because they considered the AIP to already be dead, but to silence managements claim they weren't allowing the pilots to speak they decided to allow the pilots to crush it once and for all. Their option was to either vote yes, or abstain in that case.
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Originally Posted by Maverick
(Post 1597557)
you have to think of this from management's perspective. If the MEC votes it down then the company does not have a window into how much their proposal has to be modified in order to get a majority vote from pilots. From our side, if we vote it down 80% to 20 then the company knows their proposal is nowwhere close to passing but if we vote no 51% to 49% the company know they only need to sweeten it enough to get another 1.1% to vote yes. that less than 15 pilots who need to change their vote. It like we are showing our hand. We called the company's bluff and raised, now it up to them to fold or reraise. If we go with a pilot vote they have a pretty good idea whats in our hand and can but accordingly. I prefer them to be in the dark! I dont care what they offer, Im voting NO We already signed an 8yr deal with a fleet plan promise so thats it. No airplanes then no talks, when is this pilot group gonna realize that the company has to do something, anything to prove their word is good. They'll park airplanes to let me flow, yeah right!!!
Here is what should be happening. The pilots should stage a MEC confidence vote. This would give the pilots the opportunity to vote on whether they feel the MEC did a good job in turning the TA away on their behalf without the risk of the TA actually passing. If the MEC confidence vote passes, then that is the end of it. If the MEC confidence votes fails, then the TA can be sent to the pilot group. You guys are skipping a major step without doing this. You have TWO major issues here, not just one. 1.) MEC confidence 2.) TA Think about it, tell your MEC this is what you want instead. |
Be Prepared
Be Strong VOTE NO Support MEC |
Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1598049)
Be Prepared
Be Strong VOTE NO Support MEC |
I am livid.
I also want a large VOTE NO turnout. I do not agree with what happened. But management has two aces in the hole, ORD and AETC Reps on the take and ALPA National. It is about time to shut up the yes voters once and for all. They are the ones screwing the pilots here, the MINORITY. So yes, VOTE NO. Obama abstained his whole career in the US Senate and he became President. So yes I support my Reps they have fought the fight now for over six months and it is time for the pilots to stand up and VOTE NO. |
Originally Posted by 35Right
(Post 1597874)
The DFW reps mentioned the 6 abstainees didn't vote because they considered the AIP to already be dead, but to silence managements claim they weren't allowing the pilots to speak they decided to allow the pilots to crush it once and for all. Their option was to either vote yes, or abstain in that case.
Think about this if they knew that this was (is) a big POS why not block it again? Why do they care what management says? They need to come out with the truth we deserve that. The only way to send you the deal was either to vote yes or abstain Pretty good move your guys made. And scheduling it to finish with RAH's. Genius. I can't wait to watch the evening need that day. Eagle has voted no twice already. XJT has voted no Now RAH and Eagle a third time will vote no. This is the crap they write books about. Great job guys. Jr guys want to fly the E175, Senior guys want to stay here until retire. Mid Senior CAs want to flow. So, at the end...everyone will vote how they want. |
pilotj3 you got it correct.
I am a senior pilot who will retire here, but I am a NO VOTE. I don't work the same for less just so AAG can take the savings and pay another feeder. Shut this place down if they like to, today or tomorrow, don't care. The pilots here better wise up and stop chasing the brass ring. You have what you have, cannot depend on a promise. Be Prepared Be Strong VOTE NO |
Demanding your MEC kill it is a coward's way out. It also doesn't bode well for your group if the NMB becomes involved. Your MEC did as well as they could have by having a couple yes votes and abstentions. The pilots must speak to have better leverage down the road especially if the feds become involved.
You may not like your MEC but they just pilots like you and I even if I don't work for your company. However, they around this garbage much more frequently than the rest of us and have other considerations such as the NMB to look at. The next little secret: The MEC isn't this all powerful entity that half you knuckleheads give it credit to be. They only have leverage if you speak and give it to them. Stop screaming for your MEC to do your work and go vote no. It is YOU that gives the MEC the ability to do things, not the the way around. Sack up and go vote. |
Originally Posted by Redundant Guy
(Post 1598159)
Demanding your MEC kill it is a coward's way out. It also doesn't bode well for your group if the NMB becomes involved. Your MEC did as well as they could have by having a couple yes votes and abstentions. The pilots must speak to have better leverage down the road especially if the feds become involved.
You may not like your MEC but they just pilots like you and I even if I don't work for your company. However, they around this garbage much more frequently than the rest of us and have other considerations such as the NMB to look at. The next little secret: The MEC isn't this all powerful entity that half you knuckleheads give it credit to be. They only have leverage if you speak and give it to them. Stop screaming for your MEC to do your work and go vote no. It is YOU that gives the MEC the ability to do things, not the the way around. Sack up and go vote. AnchorDown |
Originally Posted by Redundant Guy
(Post 1598159)
Demanding your MEC kill it is a coward's way out. It also doesn't bode well for your group if the NMB becomes involved. Your MEC did as well as they could have by having a couple yes votes and abstentions. The pilots must speak to have better leverage down the road especially if the feds become involved.
You may not like your MEC but they just pilots like you and I even if I don't work for your company. However, they around this garbage much more frequently than the rest of us and have other considerations such as the NMB to look at. The next little secret: The MEC isn't this all powerful entity that half you knuckleheads give it credit to be. They only have leverage if you speak and give it to them. Stop screaming for your MEC to do your work and go vote no. It is YOU that gives the MEC the ability to do things, not the the way around. Sack up and go vote. Actually the mec did what the pilots wanted it is the minority and national who changed the rules. Seems if you are the minority but are with management you can get as many bites of the apple you want. How much you want to bet that if the no vote was the minority they only get one bite. totally agree with you the pilots have to stand up and vote no in very large numbers. Management wants a ***** on the payroll eagle pilots should not be it. Vote No |
What are the sentiments on this over at Eagle?
At XJT, it was a very strong, angry, and vocal ***k no! From almost everybody I flew with. How is it at Eagle? |
Originally Posted by Redundant Guy
(Post 1598159)
Demanding your MEC kill it is a coward's way out. It also doesn't bode well for your group if the NMB becomes involved. Your MEC did as well as they could have by having a couple yes votes and abstentions. The pilots must speak to have better leverage down the road especially if the feds become involved.
You may not like your MEC but they just pilots like you and I even if I don't work for your company. However, they around this garbage much more frequently than the rest of us and have other considerations such as the NMB to look at. The next little secret: The MEC isn't this all powerful entity that half you knuckleheads give it credit to be. They only have leverage if you speak and give it to them. Stop screaming for your MEC to do your work and go vote no. It is YOU that gives the MEC the ability to do things, not the the way around. Sack up and go vote. |
Originally Posted by stoki
(Post 1598218)
What are the sentiments on this over at Eagle?
At XJT, it was a very strong, angry, and vocal ***k no! From almost everybody I flew with. How is it at Eagle? |
Originally Posted by bretthull
(Post 1598220)
Before it was "killed" last time, I'd say 80% of the CA's I flew with were NO votes.
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Yeah, most guys I fly with are "no's." But several guys in my seniority range (14yrs) are yes voters. I think it will be close either way it goes.
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Heard embraer has some info about an announcement the company was going to make last monday.
Care to elaborate son? |
Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
(Post 1598269)
Heard embraer has some info about an announcement the company was going to make last monday.
Care to elaborate son? |
if it was/is true then why did not AAG do it, definitely not
because they love the eagle pilots. Could it be that what ever is was/is would be laughed at in the industry. Word is first 20 airplanes they had a taker for, only person with enough 50 seaters being parked within the next 12 months is SKW who would have excess pilots. Maybe they bid under cost again as they did the UAL E175 deal (SKW management stated that when the deal was done) as they did the EJT contract. I see SKW management coming for cuts next year. Just an opinion |
Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1598280)
if it was/is true then why did not AAG do it, definitely not
because they love the eagle pilots. Could it be that what ever is was/is would be laughed at in the industry. Word is first 20 airplanes they had a taker for, only person with enough 50 seaters being parked within the next 12 months is SKW who would have excess pilots. Maybe they bid under cost again as they did the UAL E175 deal (SKW management stated that when the deal was done) as they did the EJT contract. I see SKW management coming for cuts next year. Just an opinion I don't recall SKW management ever stating that they bid the UAL E175 deal, or any other for that matter, "under cost".... Do you have any legitimate source for this statement? |
Originally Posted by stoki
(Post 1598218)
What are the sentiments on this over at Eagle?
At XJT, it was a very strong, angry, and vocal ***k no! From almost everybody I flew with. How is it at Eagle? |
If you guys want to vote no. You MUST get out and spread the word. I was 100% sure the PSA TA would fail and look what happened here.
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Originally Posted by Bzzt
(Post 1598219)
The MEC are elected representatives similar to congressmen and senators in the U.S. government. It is a representative democracy that we have installed at ALPA. The MEC was given emails from the pilot group to vote no and they changed their mind under duress from national and the company. Not everything should or needs to go to a pilot vote.
This is a case where if the group is as unified as it appears, a resounding no vote carries a significant amount of weight with investors, your company and the NMB. Trust me, I don't want to see with the Republic deal or Eagle deal pass. I thing if both those groups shoot down their respective deals, we have taken what was about to be a massive reset and completely stop it. I wish you guys luck. |
The MEC could have voted NO. They did/could not, they did the next best thing sending it to the membership with MIA, DFW and N.Y. abstaining, basically a vote of no confidence. The only ones who were for the AIP/TA are the ones who never say no to management on anything the ORD and Training Reps. Also one of those casting the vote of yes for ORD was an unelected representative, because the F/O ORD rep resigned because he could not put up anymore with the BULL from the ORD Capt. Rep Glenna.
So all in all we have been placed in this position by 3 pilots. The pilots at Eagle if they can see past there fear and past there selfishness will realize this will not stop management from coming back next year and doing the same thing. Because we have a contract good for another 7 years and that did not stop them this time, why will passing this AIP/TA stop them from coming next year to do the same thing. Be Prepared, Be Strong and VOTE NO |
Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1598590)
The MEC could have voted NO. They did/could not, they did the next best thing sending it to the membership with MIA, DFW and N.Y. abstaining, basically a vote of no confidence. The only ones who were for the AIP/TA are the ones who never say no to management on anything the ORD and Training Reps. Also one of those casting the vote of yes for ORD was an unelected representative, because the F/O ORD rep resigned because he could not put up anymore with the BULL from the ORD Capt. Rep Glenna.
So all in all we have been placed in this position by 3 pilots. The pilots at Eagle if they can see past there fear and past there selfishness will realize this will not stop management from coming back next year and doing the same thing. Because we have a contract good for another 7 years and that did not stop them this time, why will passing this AIP/TA stop them from coming next year to do the same thing. Be Prepared, Be Strong and VOTE NO I don't buy the "we succumbed to Alpa national and management pressure". That is the biggest lie after obamacare. They know something and they will not say it and that just validates that our MEC is playing major politics once again. |
I never said they did right, what I said is they did the next best thing rather than voting yes. I agree there is something other than being threatened that they found home for 20 E175's (which is what I hear) and I would have said go ahead make the announcement. I agree I do not trust this pilot group to find a spine and would have been better for the six to say NO.
Yes I jumped on the previous MEC who negotiated in 2010 in secret with management, that they lied and gave away scope that we had and that they lied about why not to force management to go to the judge and explain under oath why they need 1113. The previous MEC was bought off by management just as is the ORD and TRNG reps now, left overs from the previous regime. BUT, with all that said I still have to try to get as many NO votes to be cast. |
The airplanes are coming to AE regardless if your pilots vote yes or no. AE pilots just don't know that yet.
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