Please elaborate on this. How did ALPA keep Envoy from flying under an even worse contract? What would have happened if ALPA was not there?

 

He's claiming that a lower hour pilot fresh out of school meets their standard better than a higher hour pilot who's left school sharp but is now forced to fly crop dusters to build time for a year or two while his skills atrophy.

 

Ha! Good point!

P.S. When Bedford testified that basically RAH pilots are fools because they turned down his " pay raises" Moak should have been all over Bedford's butt. Nobody just turns away money, any idiot knows this. There was a *reason* RAH pilots voted the way they did.

 

I don't think that was the place for that argument. No one one the panel really wanted to hear a union/company bickering. Plus, since they were IBT, he really didn't have the business commenting on their union negotiations and Bedford knew that.

Unfortunately, Bedford does have a leg to stand on in that all "experience" in terms of time is not created equal. He has a point that, in this mythical world where military pilots are getting out with 400 hours, they aren't qualified to be a regional FO. That is ridiculous. There is also a problem saying that a ERAU 1000 hour applicant is more qualified than a non-college graduate with 1500 hours--or even a ERAU graduate who did his Private-Commercial in high school and now has to wait until 1500.

 

The idea that these military guys are turned loose at 3 or 400 hundred hours is laughable. After they get their wings, military pilots still have to go through equipment training on type and specific training for their community, during which they are closely monitored, and have 600-800 hours by the time they get to a squadron and are completely finished with training. And guess what? The requirement for pilots with military training is 750 hours which is what these pilots should have when they are completely finished with their training pipeline. The only ones that won't are the pilots that wash out, which according to Bedford don't meet Republic's "high standards" LOL.

The fact that Lee Moak, a former military pilot, sat there like a potted plant and let Bedford make these ridiculous statements tells you where ALPA stands in regard to regional airlines. They don't care. Once again it appears airline management is going to run rings around ALPA and allow them to get the one thing (new hiring requirements) that has given pilots real leverage to get wages increased repealed.

But hey, we're all over this Norwegian thing though......

 

If they flew "cropdusters" for a year or two they would gain more skill...not less.
However, a low hour pilot fresh out of school isn't likely to get an ag position anyway.

But I would hire a CFI that went and did some ag flying any day - not that many ag pilots would want to take the pay cut to go to a regional.

 

At that level of experience, the average Riddle guy will be better the average high school graduate. Most Riddle guys coming out fresh have strong instrument skills. Once you hit 5000 hrs, everybody is about the same.
I am still not happy there was any sort of reduction in the required hours, it should have been 1500 across the board.

 

Not quite sure where you're getting your info but most UPT grads, at least on the airlift/tanker side, finish T-6/T-1 with 250 hours (essentially a Beachjet type). Then in follow on, you might get 20 more hours. So, you're telling me that a newly minted AF pilot on a C-17 is then getting 450 more hours in unit training before being allowed to deploy? If they AF can have a pilot combat mission ready in under 400 hours, they should be allowed to fly an RJ.

As for The Dude: I worked with ERAU grads when I flight instructed. I didn't go to an aviation college but my instrument skills and knowledge at 1000 were equal to or better than most of theirs. Not to mention that many of them were intimidated by flying cross-country.

 

What I am talking about is by the time they finish ALL their training to be mission qualified in a reserve squadron, for instance, they would be close to having the 750 hours for the restricted ATP. Not sure where you're getting your facts, but military pilots get a heck of a lot more than 20 hours training on the aircraft they will be flying post UPT. Basic military pilot training takes a year to a year and half depending on which pipeline you are in, then another year to a year and half training on the equipment you will actually be flying before you get to your first squadron. Then once in the squadron, you have to finish squadron specific training to become fully qualified.

The argument is nonsensical because there is no way a military pilot with 400 hours is going to be applying anywhere because they would still be busy with getting qualified in their specific aircraft, even in the reserves or guard.

Comparing training in any civilian program with the military at present is a joke. The washout rates don't compare, and the profit motive is always at play with civilian training. Maybe one day if major airlines established ab initio training where they were paying for all the training (just like the military) you might get somewhere with this comparison, but right now to say a 300 hour pilot from Riddle or any other civilian pay to play program is comparable to a 300 hour military pilot is laughable and only a complete knob like Bedford would even try to say they are comparable. The whole idea of hiring 300 hour guys came about because of pay to play academies like Comair where the lure of a job was used to get students into these academies to pump $$$ into the coffers of these companies. I still remember the Chief Pilot at Comair telling me after the strike, when they got the nice contract and EVERYBODY was trying to get hired there, they only were taking lower time academy guys because they were contractually required to, and if they had their choice none of them would be hired for the higher time guys.

In the end, its all about the money. Follow that and you will understand. This has nothing to do with flying qualifications, but everything to do with hiring pilots that will work as cheap as possible, and getting back to the days when they could lure people to these zero to hero pilot factories so Bedford and his ilk can get their kickback for guaranteeing jobs to these guys who shell out 200K for a $20000 a year job.